Teg loves toys and I think they enrich his life and make him happier. He has a toybox so he can get toys himself and I keep some toys "special" that I only use for training or when I am actively playing a game with him.

Firstly, Jeanna - that's a great piccie!

TBH I don't really understand the quote. My lot all love to play, with their toys, with each other, with toys and each other at the same time eg 2 of them will play tuggy together), with me or my Son etc.

Zane went trough a phase a couple of years back when I had to teach him how to play. It was like he forgot how almost overnight. Now he loves to play but I have to work at improving and increasing his drive for Sch training. He definitely has it. But I have to bring it out of him.

The best thing I've found isn't a dog toy at all. It's an old towel that I've folded over and over. I've put electrical tape around the ends for me to hold onto. The middle part is left so each time Zane does somethign right on the field he gets maybe 10 seconds/a quick tug on the towel toy. Then it goes away and it's back to work.

At home he'll play with toys the same as the other dogs but the towel toy lives on the top of the kitchen cupboard. It's "special" and he's almost suicidal if he thinks he'll get to play with it. I've managed to get him to this point only since Sunday when I was told I had to find some way of getting him so worked up he couldn't possibly be distracted from it.
But the time with the towel toy finishes when I say so. It starts when I say so too and when I decide, it goes away again.

Once the toy is away, he calms down and goes back to either playing with the other dogs or toys if he wants to or he settles somewhere.

If I take him to training classes, whether pet obedience locally or tracking or obedience for Sch he knows the difference.

With that in mind, surely a gundog would know the difference between going out on the field, retrieving game etc and playing with a furry toy at home, no?

I wouldn't describe myself as lazy where my dogs are concerned. I spend lots of time with them, walking, training and playing with them. I may have a lazy day or two every now and then when we don't seem to do as much but as a rule, I think my dogs would be bored and miserable without toys and playtime.

I know of someone who owns ex-racing greyhounds. She does nothing with them. They are walked together around the same block every day. No change. No different smells etc. They are not played with. They are not interacted with. They haven't been trained in any wa, shaped or form but they will get shouted at when they steal food from a plate left at nose level on the side of a chair etc. These dogs are practically brain dead.

They will sleep all day because there is NOTHING else for them. They aren't allowed to interact with other dogs (as mine play the splat game and they have thin skin I can understand to a point) so they're not properly socialised - although they're not aggressive with other dogs.

These dogs have NO toys. Not even home made crappy ones that can be easily made again, thrown away and replaced when they get ruined etc. NOTHING.

So I suppose my point is that I agree with others that it is the lazy owner who does NOT play with their dogs, who does NOT allow them to have toys, who does NOT interact with their dogs. And regardless of whether a dog works in some capacity, if you're not prepared to make an effort in ALL aspects of dog ownership (including playing with them or allowing them to have toys to play with themselves) then you shouldn't have the dogs in the first place!

Thanks Stumpywop......

Wanna know a secret? Jinty likes teatowels too..... she has her own childrens cotton one from Dulelm, Ive knotted one corner which is her fave bit to hold onto for 'grip' and we play tug. Im using this love to create a new trick..... "clean up" whereby she will go and fetch the teatowel, hold it by the knot and drag the towel along the floor while bringing it back to me. Doesnt even need treats! Hahaha!

Sad story about the greyhounds though.

Hey, don't diss the home made, cheap, crappy toys! They're pretty much ALL my dog gets. His Wubba and the canvas dummy type toy are his only real toys, the rest are cardboard boxes and tubes. He can destroy them to his hearts content and they don't cost me a penny

I find it really sad when somebody does absolutely nothing with their dogs. I don't understand why people have a dog if they don't want to do anything with it.

In defence of Des who posted the quote (did you ask him if he minded Leanne - as a moderator on that board, I do feel a little uncomfortable that this thread has included his quoted comments but that's another story), he is a very well respected field trialler of pointers.

Have a look here - if you can see it without being a member -just read the t&cs on this site and it says links to other forums is not allowed so apologies for thatand you will see he does a lot with his dogs. You need to put a lot of work in to get the results that Des gets. If not, search for Glencuan and you will see all about him. His dogs are working dogs.

My kennel dogs don't have fluffy toys bought for them. They play with each other, with leaves etc etc and of course training and working is playing to them. I wouldn't say that they miss out because they don't have a toy specifically bought for them, they play their own games.

Helen

well, you know, if you hadn`t posted that, none of us would have had a clue where the quote came from........
I`m sure this isn`t the only person who believes like this, and as far as I was concerned it was a general discussion, with people saying how they viewed toys.

There are a few members on here who knew where it came from. It is the first time I have ever heard that comment and I have been involved in the working gundog world for 10 years. Were you able to read the link? Maybe members on here and there, should start a discussion and ask Des what he actually means and his reasoning behind it?

My only "gripe" was the direct quote from Des, unless he has been asked?

Helen

But not everybody works their dog. Not every dog is capable of doing the job it was bred for. I can fully understand a dog that spends a lot of its time working and has the company of other dogs when not working not needing toys but the average pet dog doesn't spend ANY time working let alone enough time to keep it mentally and physically satisfied.

I still fail to see how giving your dog toys makes you lazy. If that's ALL you do then yes, it's lazy. But what about all the people who let their dog play with toys and do a ton of stuff with them on top of that? How is that the lazy option?

But Des' dogs do work. I don't know, you will have to ask Des. He doesn't have your average pet dog, he has working pointers.

I can't answer that as I don't know - it is a question for Des himself.

Helen

If that is the case then I can sort of see the point.

I have companion dogs (my GSDs) but we train in tracking, searching, and general obedience. I am trying to build up my dog's drive and focus on me and toys are the perfect way to do this, as well as a reward for a "job well done". However, we train for fun - on top of regular walks, play time, mooch about time etc.

My hubby has working sheepdogs that work every day on sheep. They also enjoy a couple of relaxed walks a day in the fields around our cottage and will chase a ball or play with toys if I happen to be playing with them with my own dogs, but my hubby doesn't really see the need to have toys for his working dogs to play with. In fact he frowns upon his work dogs chasing after the ball (or my dogs chasing the ball) and it can hype collies up and makes them rather giddy and silly ... however, I don't think this would equate to toys being used by lazy owners. Not quite sure whether that train of thought comes from.