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Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
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02-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by krlyr 
Do they not do this already though? E.g. having to contact/return to the breeder, not breeding from them unless this is pre-arranged, neutering and vaccinating them (or not neutering/vaccinating them, depending on breeder's viewpoint!) and so on, which, like this rule, could be lied about and ignored if you wanted to get around them. Is this not just another case of "I feel this is best for the puppy so I would like owners to follow these rules" rather than a "I'm a controlling dog breeder who wants to tell you what's right and wrong in the world"? If someone believes, like Joedee seems to, that commercial diets have a negative impact on a dog's health then why would they want dogs they've brought into the world to be fed on it?
Ditto with rescues, many insist on puppies being neutered or spayed by 6 months, regardless of your personal feelings on it. Many insist you enroll in puppy classes, that you have the dog vaccinated, that you keep it on-lead for the first x weeks you own it, that you keep the microchip in their name, that you let them know if you can't keep the dog, etc. - all telling you what to do with your dog after you've adopted it. In my view, if you don't like those rules, get a dog from someone who's rules you do agree with.
I totally agree and that is why I choose where I purchase my pups from very carefully and NO conditions are ever put on me.
If people want to tell me what to do with my puppies I go elsewhere.
So you are absolutely right.
With one or two VERY rare exceptions, there are pups aplenty from reputable breeders who do not make draconian demands on their purchasers.
Simples!
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Location: London, UK
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
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02-06-2011, 09:05 PM
). If I want to feed commerical food, then its my business. If I want to keep my dog entire, that's my choice.
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Location: Preston, Lancashire
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,648
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02-06-2011, 09:29 PM
But feeding raw doesn't fit in with my lifestyle, as explained before - and it would be a shame to be turned down for a puppy just for this!
T has been fed on a few different foods, until I found one I liked, and she has now been on it for 4 years........she doesn't have a delicate stomach, she can eat anything and it not affect her (no allergies either).
As long as you are doing the best fgor the puppy, can't see the problem really!
Different lifestyles need different things to fit in with it!
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Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 591
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02-06-2011, 09:35 PM
I can totally understand not wanting to be "controlled" by the breeder, and how so many are put off by the seeingly endless demands that come with getting a pup from these places, including some rescues.
BUT...there is generally a reason these demands are made in the first place. Let's say for example, I sell you a GD pup. And I tell you flat out...they CANNOT be fed crap food or puppy food and be expected to grow properly. So you say "Well screw you lady, it's MY dog and if I want to feed Iams I will." Who's going to suffer for your stubborness?You? No. The dog. When they start knuckling over...when they're suffering from extreme pano pains...when they come down with HOD and must be put down....who do they blame? The breeder. You sold me a sick dog. No...I sold you a dog wit special requirements that if you had've cared enough, would have tried to prevent by doing those things that were suggested.
Rescues want dogs spayed/nuetered because they are one of the places in society that sees the negative impact of too many dogs being born, and not enough GOOD homes to keep them. They want to try and prevent that. I don't agree with them all either....I would not want to neuter a dane before the age of 18 months, and would not much like being forced to.
So there are two sides to the story. There is a fine line between not doing what is truly best for your dog (which a breeder who has really studied and kept track of their lines would know way better than the new owner)) and stubbornly refusing to, out of pure pride.
I could never co own a dog for example...but if a breeder who knows their dogs tells me not to let my growing dane pup jump on and off furniture, I don't let him. If she tells me to feed him high quality food, or raw, then I will find the best I can get. If she tells me that I have to awlk him using a black harness with funky little bells on, whilst singing oh happy day...then we have a problem.
BUT...there is generally a reason these demands are made in the first place. Let's say for example, I sell you a GD pup. And I tell you flat out...they CANNOT be fed crap food or puppy food and be expected to grow properly. So you say "Well screw you lady, it's MY dog and if I want to feed Iams I will." Who's going to suffer for your stubborness?You? No. The dog. When they start knuckling over...when they're suffering from extreme pano pains...when they come down with HOD and must be put down....who do they blame? The breeder. You sold me a sick dog. No...I sold you a dog wit special requirements that if you had've cared enough, would have tried to prevent by doing those things that were suggested.
Rescues want dogs spayed/nuetered because they are one of the places in society that sees the negative impact of too many dogs being born, and not enough GOOD homes to keep them. They want to try and prevent that. I don't agree with them all either....I would not want to neuter a dane before the age of 18 months, and would not much like being forced to.
So there are two sides to the story. There is a fine line between not doing what is truly best for your dog (which a breeder who has really studied and kept track of their lines would know way better than the new owner)) and stubbornly refusing to, out of pure pride.
I could never co own a dog for example...but if a breeder who knows their dogs tells me not to let my growing dane pup jump on and off furniture, I don't let him. If she tells me to feed him high quality food, or raw, then I will find the best I can get. If she tells me that I have to awlk him using a black harness with funky little bells on, whilst singing oh happy day...then we have a problem.
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Location: Preston, Lancashire
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,648
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02-06-2011, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jenn~n~Luke
I could never co own a dog for example...but if a breeder who knows their dogs tells me not to let my growing dane pup jump on and off furniture, I don't let him. If she tells me to feed him high quality food, or raw, then I will find the best I can get. If she tells me that I have to awlk him using a black harness with funky little bells on, whilst singing oh happy day...then we have a problem.
But to not give a choice, and when you mention you think your selection is a decent food (and in your price range), and told it's not, so you can't have a pup......
Not a breeder for me!
Now go get that harness with bells on and get singing
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Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 591
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Location: Motherwell, UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,088
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02-06-2011, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
I wouldn't have a problem with it & indeed would do this for my puppies. My dogs have been fed raw & a holistic organic complete for a very long time before raw feeding became popular & called BARF.
Having seen what goes into some complete foods & all the additives, chemicals etc that added to the vast majority of complete feeds I am ultra careful what I give my dogs, I don't want the additives/chemicals etc to damage my dogs & as a result I have dogs that never have any stomach problems, never have health problems caused by food & can literally eat anything.
I have a friend whose dogs have all had digestion problems, she slavishly follows advice given by her vet re diet & has only had one dog make old age(a rescue)all the others have had serious problems throughout their lives
Originally Posted by krlyr
Do they not do this already though? E.g. having to contact/return to the breeder, not breeding from them unless this is pre-arranged, neutering and vaccinating them (or not neutering/vaccinating them, depending on breeder's viewpoint!) and so on, which, like this rule, could be lied about and ignored if you wanted to get around them. Is this not just another case of "I feel this is best for the puppy so I would like owners to follow these rules" rather than a "I'm a controlling dog breeder who wants to tell you what's right and wrong in the world"? If someone believes, like Joedee seems to, that commercial diets have a negative impact on a dog's health then why would they want dogs they've brought into the world to be fed on it?
Ditto with rescues, many insist on puppies being neutered or spayed by 6 months, regardless of your personal feelings on it. Many insist you enroll in puppy classes, that you have the dog vaccinated, that you keep it on-lead for the first x weeks you own it, that you keep the microchip in their name, that you let them know if you can't keep the dog, etc. - all telling you what to do with your dog after you've adopted it. In my view, if you don't like those rules, get a dog from someone who's rules you do agree with.
A lot of people mention how it cannot be enforced, which is true. But so are many things that breeders stipulate. I don’t see a problem with it tbh, if a breeder wants the best for the pups they breed and raw is what they think is best, then I think its great they care so much. Some may see it as too controlling, but then just choose another breeder whose rules and stipulations you agree with. If I went to a rescue and they said I couldn’t feed the dog raw, then I would find another rescue who does allow raw feeding.
My post is pretty much pointless coz i have just said the same things as in the quotes
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Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
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02-06-2011, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
How would I enforce it ? Only let my puppies go to people who already feed raw QED, I've never had a problem finding people who want my puppies.
Well in the experience I have had since 195 when i got my first dog, is that dogs fed on a commercial diets are very prone to have"delicate"stomachs. I have known 100s of GSDs who have had "sensitive"digestive systems that are fed solely on commercial complete foods. The number of dogs that develop digestive problems has grown dramatically with the popularity of complete foods. All the chemicals added to the actual food & the chemicals/antibiotics etc applied/given to the vegetable & grain content/meat source animals that make up the ingredients are known causes of digestive problems in dogs(EG Bakers has a warning not to feed it to any animal that could have contact with food animals as it contains bone meal-a possible source of BSE !-it's in the small print on the large bags)
As for commercial foods, perhaps that is your experience, but there probably millions of dogs eating 'processed' diets who do not have digestive problems or sensitive stomaches. We can all look to anecodal evidence, but it doesn't mean much without facts to back it up.
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Location: UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,096
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03-06-2011, 12:13 AM
I don't feed raw and IMO it is not raw=good, commercial=bad. There is much more to it than that as there are pluses and minuses with either, not least depending on individual circumstances of the dog, the owner and precise diet composition concerned.
I do not think it reasonable, or enforceable, to insist on raw feeding only and to do so could either encourage lying, or encourage a new owner to drop contact after purchase, together with the raw diet.
My reasons for not feeding raw would be out of concern for exposing my dog to what I see as avoidable risks, not out of lack of concern. I would be particularly concerned about obstructions and physical damage and some dogs (or their owners), risking pathogens that have been would be killed off by heat, but then I haven't found my dogs doing badly on commercial diets although I do toothbrush daily.
(JMO, other opinions are available
)BTW doesn't everyone know GDs need jingly harnesses and regular gospel-based karaoke?
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Location: U K
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,589
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03-06-2011, 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by labradork
So you would turn down an potentially excellent home for a puppy purely because they would not, for whatever reason, want to feed a raw diet?
As for commercial foods, perhaps that is your experience, but there probably millions of dogs eating 'processed' diets who do not have digestive problems or sensitive stomaches. We can all look to anecodal evidence, but it doesn't mean much without facts to back it up.
You can also (if wanted) feed a mix of raw & commercial.
Really when alls said & done, easier to walk away, or not get involved in tbe first place. I still wonder if this breeder is also a Supplier (of raw food)
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