I think the statement, Im selling a litter for someone else would set alarm bells ringing,

If I had a litter and someone contacted me but I had no pups {which I would hope I wouldnt anyway, I would hope to have homes lined up before they hit the ground}

I would say sorry I dont have pups avalable, where did you get my number {lol} then direct them to another breeder if I knew they had pups for sale,

I cant understand why someone would want the hasstle of complaints about sickly pups {if they had a good reputation for there own breeding}
why would any decent breeder do that!

I would think they would have to be far less than decent to even consider it,

To answer Mini's reply

Yes they were reported and closed down after a raid. I understand 117 adult dogs were brought out which 86 survived (others were humanely PTS I afraid) Reah being one of the ones who survived obviously.

It was on TV, they were prosecuted, but they were fined and slapped on the wrist......I do wonder however whether they have set up somewhere else.

The only thing too that upsets me, was after her rescue Reah was allowed into the hands of Mr.C and we all know what happened next

But she says now

Selling sickly pups, whether for someone else or not, would surely ruin any sort of reputation a breeder had built. Any Breeder I know values their good reputation and wouldn't even touch a litter that was bred unethically/unhealthily.

I thought most PF pups were sold on to pet shops

I think it is a good thing to discuss these things and bring them to the attention of people who read the forums .

I think the members here are well aware of the conditions that prevail in puppy farms, some people who read the forums may not be so well informed. The focus is frequently on the puppies they produce rather than on the bitches which have outlived their usefulness, and it is good to focus on them for once .

I would be interested to know how the people who deal directly with the puppy farms knew who to speak to in the first place and where to go, how do they make initial contact and how many of the ex breeding bitches are paid for. I don't think the PFs advertise their services in the Yellow Pages.


The more we understand the better to find solutions.

Im so split on this subject, I agree with Mini that a token few are given up to rescue in a bit to keep things sweet,

I do wonder what happes to the hundreds of other dogs that dont get so lucky!

I don't click on links Spot...I don't have the time to click on every link given on here so I opt for not doing it. I do however, read posts

I'm not seeing that I am being educated here on what is being done.

I have NOT said at any point that the dogs shouldn't be rescued (although I would condemn any 'rescuing' that involves any money being given over...)

All I am saying is that the information should be given to the powers that be...that there is a bigger picture than the individual dogs. In order to fight these PF puppy buyers have to be educated but so do councils etc. Those on the cutting edge of the rescue should be sending photos and vets evidence to them...what is so wrong with me saying that?

No one on here has condemned KC for anything that she has done, far from it. All that has been said is that this is a difficult area...which is pretty obvious.

When I see the pictures that she posted on the other thread,I am not upset for those dogs, as they are safe and fine, but I am dvestated to think of the dogs that will have taken their place. It is those dogs that must drive any rescuers of ex breeders to bombard the authorities and govenrment. By bombarding them and not letting it go...by emailing/writing/lobbying constantly about every rescue ex breeder...one day they will HAVE to listen.

As I say no one is condemning the rescue of these dogs and if people bothered to read posts properly and carefully they would see that. The comments are directed at the bigger picture and yes, the photos are distressing...but they are on a dog forum and are therefore preaching to the converted on how awful PFs are...the vast majority on here know that already. The photos would be best sent to LAs and government.

No one is criticising KC and no one has...I do wish people would take a step back from this and see that.
All that is being said is that there is, with this sort of rescue, a wider picture.

Every person who has commented on this and KCs thread wants PFing to stop and doesn't want dogs to be bred and treated in the way the rescues have been.
Some of us are just suggesting other ways that could help, that is all.No one is criticising anyone....actually no....those that are suggesting that the information could be passed on are being criticised...the rescuers are NOT being criticised...just having other things suggested because of the broader picture.

The kennel that those dogs came from now have new residents that KC will go back to get in 3 years THAT is what upsets me and drives my posts. Something needs to be done to stop that and the rescuers, who see the cnditions and get the dogs out are the ones who are in the best position to lobby the powers that be.

Spot, sorry could you please just clarify something for me?

Apologies that i don't have the time to look back and try and find it, but I am positive that at least one person has said that the rescues DO NOT provide any information to authorities, the press etc. because if they did so, the breeders would stop giving them the dogs.

However, your recent posts suggest that detailed information is passed on to the media and lobby groups.

Could you please say whether you are involved in this type of rescue and if so exactly what information is recorded and whether all of this is provided to the media/lobby groups.

Asking for this does not mean that I am anti-rescue; there are lots of things in this world where I support a principle but not necessarily the methods/approaches taken to achieve the goal. (and it is always easier to sit and judge from the outside).

Hali may I answer here although the question is not directed at me, someone said in another thread in three separate places ...
1) 'If I went with a lecture for the puppy farmer tomorrow should would keep the dogs and tell me where to go and never give us any then whats their fate''

2)''What needs to be understood is my hands are tied, I cant be seen to be overly campaigning in case the breeder sees as she will just stop us having the dogs''

3) ''If we lobby them she wont give us the ex breeders then they are shot or drowned.'' Ok so there are a couple of things I don't understand here, one person has said when the people go to collect the dogs they try to educate the PFs ( I will look for the quotes and post below) quote number one says otherwise,

Quotes number two and three would indicate information is not going to the people who need to know.

Quote number 2 again, if information about acts of cruelty is given to the relevant authorities the PF should be closed down and that would mean there were no more dogs to save from that particular PF so why the need for secrecy . If people have the information and it is not acted upon making a fuss in the press is a good option.

As I said earlier I would be interested to know how the people who deal directly with the puppy farms knew who to speak to in the first place and where to go, how do they make initial contact and how many of the ex breeding bitches if any are paid for.
I wouldn't know where to start looking for a PF or how to make contact with one, if the information is so readily available why aren't more people acting upon it and contacting the press particularly in light of the recent programmes on the TV.

Here are the quotes about educating puppy farmers..
''Do you know that the rescues are NOT trying to educate the farmers or do something about it?''
'' and nothing complacent about trying to educate both the public regarding taking these dogs or the farmers to have them in better conditions until they can be shut down.''

...until they can be shut down, but how will they be shut down if no one knows they are there ...

That’s a great shame as you are only seeing half the information out there. Hopefully you are one of a very few that use the internet for information – puppy watch etc spend a great deal of time setting up their web sites to try to educate the public about puppyfarms – I hope people do have the time, lets face you have the time to come on here a good few times a day would it hurt to spend a couple of minutes to open some of the links on important subjects such as this ?

Well for instance you denied that the powers that be had helped the farmers in anyway – I gave you the evidence that they had yet you refused to read it – I can only educate those that want to be,.

Theres nothing wrong with you saying anything, you just ignore it though when people tell you this is already being done just not in the gungho way you want it to be


Yes and we are praying for that day – but it hasn’t happened yet and people have been bombarding them for years already but please please do email/write to your local MP, the welsh assembly whoever you can – every little helps!

Not condemning?
What about comparing them with the actual puppyfarmers?

“I don't think it should just be said 'it happens and they need a home'...thats like buying a pup from a puppy farm surely? “


Yes the photos are distressing however they are not only on here they are on those links I posted that you are too busy to open. Again I think I must be on ignore as I have tried to point out time and time again – they are being sent to Las and government and the assembly – that’s what lobby groups are for!


Which as Ive said people are aware of and have set up groups (with the rescues help) to lobby/email/set up web sites etc.


But what is the point of putting things on the internet proving these things are being passed on if people cannot be bothered to read them? I don’t think anyone has criticised those saying pass the info on – what Im trying to point out is that it is and in some cases the authorities just then legalise the illegal puppyfarms, send warnings to those they are going to inspect giving them time to clean up their act.

I give up I really do – the really is no point in replying is there I can beat myself stupid telling its already being done, giving you links etc that you cant be bothered to look at – if every one was that apathetic there is no hope at all for these dogs.

Spot...you say a great deal, without actually saying anything at all.

One minute it is said on here that there is no point in lobbying as the councils set the PFs up anyway...the next minute every rescue IS lobbying...which is it?