Here we go again ! I know how you modified one of your"northern" breeds & I am surprised you haven't suggested it, oh you can't as the topic is a no no

Right FYI I have owned working line German GSDs for over 50 years until 7 years ago when our last one died. I have worked with rescue GSDs & GSDxs for over 40 years. An untrained 8 month old GSD with no bite inhibition is far worse than any 3 month old puppy of ANY breed or cross( my hands bear the scars from such dogs)
This is a baby puppy who like ALL puppies can be taught bite inhibition without resorting to physical handling.
Also for FYI Border Collies are NOT angels nor are they gentle as puppies, as you must know as an experienced dog trainer. As for my Cavaliers(I presume they are what you called "cavvies") They may be small, but have piercing sharp teeth as puppies & can also be very bitey if not taught.
No dog needs to be taught that their owner is their "boss" the terminology is that of the force trainers & trust & respect are a much better way of building a long & happy partnership with one's pets.
I know you totally disagree with my positive reinforcement training & whole heartedly believe that humans can be pack leaders to other species, but just because I haven't owned a designer crossbreed from "northern"breeds, doesn't mean I have no experience of them, in fact one of the first dogs I ever helped train was a Siberian Husky X GSD back in the 1960s

My only real argument is towards the people who try to insinuate or claim that one type of training is hands down the best type, and is the only type that should be used.

I don't agree that 100% positive training is the best for all dog personalities and situations. I don't deal with dangerous behavior using positive methods, though I never hit or strike, and I've never been bitten in my life.

When I say something a certain way, or if I give a certain look... it is understood that I'm not joking and whatever nonsense the dog is doing ceases. I almost never do this, but it's there should I need it.

I don't fear any dogs, what I say goes, and they know that big, strong, food giver should be heeded. The dogs are fine. They are normal, happy dogs. They haven't shut down or whatever.

It's like saying your kids won't love you because they get shouted at every now and then. It just doesn't work like that. Verbal and even gentle physical reprimands are not mean, don't negatively affect most dogs from what I've seen, and really are not that big of a deal to me.

Thank you MJ! I have learned soooo much from people on forums like this one. I'm glad if I've been able to give something useful back.

Thank you very much Myrsky! We would love to hear how things go for you and as always you'll have folk on hand here for advice if you need it. It's great that you have the time and energy to put into training and socialising your little guy. With you he's already well on the road to being a good, happy, well-adjusted young dog. Setiously-- so many of these dogs are taken in, or bought at considerable expense, often for their wolfy look or their tough reputation-- here's you working hard to bring up your dog nice and well-behaved. It's delightful to see. Hats off to you!

Just a last thing especially for MJ-- yep, these dogs aren't for everyone. Just the amount of exercise they need is a lot, never mind the shedding! But they do have their good points too. They're smart as all heck (okay, some may see that as a negative point-- never mind ) They tend to be instinctively very clean-- they don't like to mess in their own space, and they can have very large definitions of what their own space is, so housetraining can be a complete breeze. They're physically clean, too: I have never, not even once, had to give Taji a full bath, and usually, even when it's quite muddy out, all I have to do is give him a good rub down with a clean towel or at worst a hose down of the underbelly in the shower. They smell nice, even when wet-- well, I think they do; I may be somewhat biased. They can be quite talkative, and though to strangers they are as aloof as cats, to their household they are loving, sweet and occasionally wonderfully goofy.

Ah my friend ... There is a whole bunch of difference between training and living 24/7 with them. They are light years away from collies and cavvies ... I have lived with a gorgeous old collie for several years who adopted us and moved in with Hal. I don't have living experience of a cavvy, only knowledge of the sweet girl who lives 3 doors away and whom tai liked to romp with.

You are SO predictable my friend ... I just knew you wouldn't be able to stand for people to respond positively to my suggestions and your true character would come to the fore as always. Myrsky needs positive advice from someone like myself who has experience since 1998 of living with and training these delightful dogs.

Why not say e-collar? That is what it is called.

A hearty hear hear from me!! They do smell lovely don't they ... Hal was so clean he refused to do a pooh in the garden! Ben doesn't like it, despite the fact he was kept on concrete. Our garden is a mix of wild flower meadow and stone patio, and the odd time he goes, it is always on the stone.

I love smart dogs, not trying to gloat, but my Nigredo is as smart as or smarter than just about any dog you'll meet. I thought my last Labby guy was smart, but Nigredo makes him seem dumb.

What I don't like is excessive shedding, dogs over 65 lbs (Nigredo is 90 lbs, but shelter told me he'd be only 60), or dogs with snarky attitudes. My Nigredo is a placid and totally non aggressive and non confrontational dog in nearly all situations.

I don't like dealing with DA and stuff. No such thing as a dog with no issues, but in a perfect world, I like active, short coated, medium-large, friendly, easy to train, and absolutely non aggressive dogs. I also like males far more than females.

I'm glad we all have choices in which dogs we like. While huskies etc are beautiful and enigmatic dogs, they are not for me. I'll stick with my Labby guys.

Its your choice to use what ever method you want with your dogs , most people dont use 100% Positive reinforcement anyway , ignoring a dog or time out for example isn't PR. Dealing with normal puppy behaviour that can be potentially dangerous (with some dogs) : by all means teach a dog Yes , thats it (reward)or no thats not right (non reward ) its useful but as was discussed in the thread with the JRT puppy , you dont need to yell or sternly No or what ever and point at it, to get it to do what you want. BTW, Saying No isnt a command any more than Yes is .

A new puppy seperated from its mum and siblings in a strange place with an alien species that doesnt talk dog , it dooesnt understand english and doesnt understand what the hell is going on or what its expected to do , its doing its normal behaviour and it gets threatened and intimidated. Way to go !

Again, , The most important thing is to teach a puppy bite inhibition ,

I dont know what gentle physical reprimands you mean . Can you give me some examples?
They might not be a big deal to you but they can be a big deal to a dog, not necessarily yours but the dog belonging to the people you give advice too .

I treat my dogs how I would like to be treated.
If I start a job where I have little experience and not sure what I am supposed to and dont fully speak the lingo, when I make a mistake i dont want something to shout no and never explain what i have done wrong , How does that help me learn what I am supposed to do? It would make me lose confidence and be uncertain and i would leave the job . Uncertainty causes great anxiety in animals as well as people .
People and animals learn and react in the same way . We learn through experiencing consequences , we avoid things we dont like , we repeat what we find rewarding . If we feel angry or trapped we might resort to arguing or fighting or if we feel nervous or unsure we might just faff about or act in an appeasive way.

Its Fight , Flight , Flee or Faff about .

You said yourself that people have been horrid (positive punishment) to you here because of what you have said . How did that make you feel ? How did you react to that?

Strangechild and Gnasher, some of the things you are saying apply to other dogs too , the behaviour isnt just exclusive to northern breeds.
many other dogs are intelligent and most pups are easy to housetrain because they dont like to soil their living area.

Its always been said that poodles are the most intelligent breed , I dont know if that true . There bodies and BCs are actually more similar in build to wild wolves than some northern breed who are more chunky .
How do you measure intelligence in a species anyway .
I've lost count of the times I heard people say My dog's stupid . Its not the dog that stupid , its usually the owner that stupid. Some dogs should wear a T shirt saying I'm with stupid .

This message is in response to Dibby.

I am an adult. Swearing at me over the internet is just plain pathetic. I would never let someone speak to me like that in real life, but I'm going to digress. I defend myself when people are rude to me. I get angry like every other human, but I get over it. Nobody can change me, I have to change myself. Words are words, and I take the good from them, and throw the rest out.

Threats, personal insults, and assumptions are just trash. However, if I am threatened, I will respond how I seem necessary in any case. I do not threaten people, and I do not personally insult people until they come at me with that nonsense first. There is a way to be critical without being downright nasty. Admittedly, even I can slip in this area sometimes. I've been horrid to people before, they'll get over it.

Moving along to more relevant things. Physical reprimands are limited to nudging a dog off a couch, lightly tugging him in a direction, such as when he is on lead, shoving a stubborn dog into a bath etc., or holding him still or something else that he may not actually like, but causes no harm and is not hitting or striking. Or like one of my neighbors, strangling with a collar.

I try hard to not go around telling people their training methods suck. Frankly, until I see how your dog behaves in general and reacts to stimuli, how can I attempt to condemn or praise your training methods? I mean the general you, btw... not actually you... Dibby. If you dogs behavior sucks, then your training methods likely suck.

When I hear pure garbage such as telling dogs no will cause them to fear you and "shut down", I make it a point to say something since... again, that is pure garbage. It's simply not true. I mean point blank it's false. Some dogs perhaps, but certainly not all dogs, and imo probably not even most or many dogs.

I dislike prong collars and all that stuff, but I mean you won't see me telling everyone to never use them. If they are used gently, and they keep a dog in his home, I'm not going to be sorry and accuse the owners of being cruel, ignorant, inhumane etc. What is the point?

Oh, and I never said you needed to do it. Also, I never said no was a command. I also never told anybody to use physical anything on their dogs, it's not my fault if people take advice that isn't there. It's generally a bad idea, and it can be misconstrued as me truly hitting or snatching on dogs, which I do not.

I can't say I treat my dogs how I like to be treated. Dogs love many things that I do not. Dogs are not humans and there is no reason to treat a dog in the way I'd like to be treated. Your scenario is not true in all cases, either... but then no scenario is true in all cases.

Which goes back to my original point, no one type of training is right for all cases. In closing, I am not from the UK. The hypersensitivity here sometimes does confound me, and then I remember. Growing up I saw terrible things, and I see dogs mistreated every time I walk around my neighborhood.

Prongs, hitting and kicking, chaining all day, vicious dogs snarling to break free of said chains, people snatching on leashes very hard to stop a dog from pulling, strangle collars, etc. are very widely used here and frankly I'm used to seeing it so saying no every now and then doesn't bother me.