check/choke chains will/can cut the hair of a long or short coated dog.

No Azz, Macks collar sits really loose, it never tightens more than a regular collar would, his sits great on his neck, flat collars don't seem any good with his big ruff, it only tightens to the fit of a normal collar if he pulls against it, or tries to back out of it, it can never constrict against his throat. If he wore a flat collar all the time so it was comfy in his fur, it would be too loose when walking does that make sense, he has a huge neck, but the the top of his neck is much smaller in comparison, so slipping a collar is easy for him, he has never slipped this collar once, or done any damage to his coat.

http://www.snowpawstore.com/dog-walk...r-alaskan.html

Oh, that would have worked for Shadow.

I have used a choker on Benjie, he has a thick gruff and kinda long hair. But this was only until he started to respond to food (when he saw another dog), and I know how to put one on so it loosens after a correction.

Sadie used to wear one, because if my OH ever walked me back to college with her, she'd slip the collar, but as soon as I was out of sight he'd put her straight on her flat collar.

But I don't know like all tools for training, in the RIGHT hands they can be acceptable to an extent...but in the wrong hands all things can be dangerous.

I do like the looks of them collars Azz... May have to purchase one to see how they work exactly.

again, so? cos kc approve they are good? lmao

also i disagree them being the only suitable collar due to hair ruff etc..i have found they are the worse for breaking coats..there are much better collars around to solve that problem.

Cannot see anywhere in my post where I mentioned that because the KC were not going to ban the collars therefore this meant they were good?

LMAO

Also, I did not say they did not break hair...........

They can be a practical solution for ALL dogs in the correct context; whether one prefers to use them above other designs is, of course, entirely up to the individual.

you may as well go down AP's route then.. but only until he responds
.
and do you think all us sibe owners use choke chains? cos if anything is gonna slip its collar its a sibe

imo even if u know 'how to put one on correctly' you are still relying on pain to train/get attention...in this day and age i dont think it is needed or acceptable

im sorry then
.. i just dont get the point of those statements if thats not what u were getting at (then again im not too bright lol)

I agree, the way the instructor I saw at that GDCS I went to was yanking that Staffie x around for barking at another dog - of which it was the other dog that started it.. she was almost choked it on a flat collar, heaven forbid she ever got hold of a choker or half check and an aggressive dog..she'd have to pay condolences to the owner...I'm pretty sure the KC wouldn't agree with that. Needless to say I am not going there tonight or ever again...

And at Crufts, don't they use handler leashes and collars - which are basically just string..I know when my Uncle and Aunt used to show, they'd have string leashes/collars not chokers...and they showed mainly long haired breeds, Shih tzu's Tibetan terriers and Polish Lowlands, not to mention the many OES's they showed previously.

The point of the statement was to give forum members FACTS rather my personal opinion!