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Malady
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27-10-2007, 01:58 AM
Because most good breeders keep in touch with puppy owners so know where they are anyway and are usually the first port o call if the puppy owners are having problems
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bajaluna
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27-10-2007, 02:49 AM
:smt023 cool I didnt really know that, I usually get my dogs out of ditches but come to think, my old labs breeder always pops up every few years
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Ramble
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27-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Rips I Understand what you're saying totally, but breeders are only people, only human, they make mistakes.

Look at the number of rescue dogs that are returned to rescue every year. Their homes are vetted, everything they are taking on is explained to them, but still....

Not all 'byb' are bad people, not all 'byb' end up with their pups in rescue. If you think about it, the majority of people get their dogs through byb....ads in papers, word of mouth and through friends and family. If you think about the majority of dogs out there...they do spend theor lives in the same family...

I just don't think it is right for people to be complacent and assume that if all dogs are bred 'responsibly' there isn't a problem, of course there is and the sad thing is we will never,ever be able to get the statistics on them...on the 'responsibly' bred dogs that end up in rescue/rehomed through breed societies (most of those dogs are 5+) and being returned to the breeder or rehomed through word of mouth, those statistics will never be available so I think it is hugely iunfair to just say it's all down to byb, when actually we do not have that evidence. The evidence would suggest they breed MORE than anyone else, but that then begs the question...what proportion of their dogs end up needing new homes compared to the dogs that are 'responsibly' bred???? WE'll never know so shouldn't pass judgement on that one IMO.

I do think breeding needs regulating, I think that every dog should be registered with it's breeder (be it a breeder of oneor more dogs) and microchipped/tatooed and given a log book, similar to a car, so it can be tracked on a central computer. Anyone with an unregistered dog (they should all wear something visible on their collar so it's easy to tell) would be fined heavily and face imprisonment,it's easy to police, becuase of the visible collar tag that can be phoned into a central agency (think car reg) but expensive to set up....the breeder should have to cover the intial cost of registration.
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Krusewalker
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27-10-2007, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
Many people want health tested, purebred dogs, and most rescues are full to the brim of crossbreeds with no history, and people stil have a choice of what to buy !!!

Just because people want a good, well bred dog, doesn't make it the breeders' faults that there are irresponsibly bred dogs in rescues.
Actually, whilst crossbreed is in the majority, most rescues also have a sizeable deal of purebred/pedigree, even those with KC pedigree breed line papers with breeders that sometimes dont take up an interest when contacted.
Also, the only time dogs in rescue come with no history (purebred/pedigree/crossbreed) is if they are unclaimed/unknown strays. Most dogs bought to rescue are given up by owners, who give a history.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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27-10-2007, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Rips I Understand what you're saying totally, but breeders are only people, only human, they make mistakes.

Look at the number of rescue dogs that are returned to rescue every year. Their homes are vetted, everything they are taking on is explained to them, but still....

Not all 'byb' are bad people, not all 'byb' end up with their pups in rescue. If you think about it, the majority of people get their dogs through byb....ads in papers, word of mouth and through friends and family. If you think about the majority of dogs out there...they do spend theor lives in the same family...

I just don't think it is right for people to be complacent and assume that if all dogs are bred 'responsibly' there isn't a problem, of course there is and the sad thing is we will never,ever be able to get the statistics on them...on the 'responsibly' bred dogs that end up in rescue/rehomed through breed societies (most of those dogs are 5+) and being returned to the breeder or rehomed through word of mouth, those statistics will never be available so I think it is hugely iunfair to just say it's all down to byb, when actually we do not have that evidence. The evidence would suggest they breed MORE than anyone else, but that then begs the question...what proportion of their dogs end up needing new homes compared to the dogs that are 'responsibly' bred???? WE'll never know so shouldn't pass judgement on that one IMO.

I do think breeding needs regulating, I think that every dog should be registered with it's breeder (be it a breeder of oneor more dogs) and microchipped/tatooed and given a log book, similar to a car, so it can be tracked on a central computer. Anyone with an unregistered dog (they should all wear something visible on their collar so it's easy to tell) would be fined heavily and face imprisonment,it's easy to police, becuase of the visible collar tag that can be phoned into a central agency (think car reg) but expensive to set up....the breeder should have to cover the intial cost of registration.
I totally agree that we shouldn't be complacent, but do you agree that due to sheer percentages that more puppies from BYB's will end up in rescue, because they breed far more puppies?

I have to say I wouldn't touch a BYB with a barge pole because I wouldn't trust a breeder to breed a well bred pup with reasoning like "I wanted my children to experience the wonder of birth" or "I thought it would be good for her to have a litter before she was spayed" etc etc.

For me that just isn't a good enough reason. For me the dog (and any resulting litters) should be the main priority. Using the above reasons, to me, just doesn't give that impression.

Can I ask Ailsa, would you intentionally go out and buy a puppy from a BYB even if you have a "responsible" (eg breeding for a purpose) breeder right on your doorstep?

That's a serious question, not a trick one! I'm just curious!

Re ID: I would seriously consider tattoing any litter I bred, but I really struggle to understand how the scheme works tbh!
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Ramble
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28-10-2007, 11:52 AM
Hi Rips,
I think yes, byb produce more pups therefore have more dogs go into rescue, I never contested that, I'm just saying that proportionately...for every pup bred...rescues per head, that sort of thing, we'll never know the real figures.


In all honesty Rips in the past our dogs have been rescues or farm bred collies. We are, at the moment, reassessing...if there was a responsible breeder vs byb yes, I would go for the responsible breeder of course I would...but there seems to be massive gulfs in what people think of as responsible breeding, which makes things even more difficult for people who are trying to source a well bred pup....there is a lot of conflicting advice etc out there...
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Malady
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28-10-2007, 12:15 PM
Well responsible breeders don't crossbreed, and as MOST rescues are full of dogs, of which the Majority are crossbreeds, I would say there's your clue !!
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pod
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28-10-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
Well responsible breeders don't crossbreed, and as MOST rescues are full of dogs, of which the Majority are crossbreeds, I would say there's your clue !!

Gosh, that's a bit of a sweeping statement Malady.

Yes, crossbreeds are more likely to have been bred by irresponsible breeders than pedigrees but it doesn't follow that every crossbred litter is irresponsibly bred.

Health checks, home vetting, rearing protocol etc are all criteria that can apply equally to both.
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Krusewalker
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28-10-2007, 01:48 PM
And thats if you assume that the breeding to KC standards is healthy in the first place................umm, tricky one that
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pod
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28-10-2007, 01:51 PM
Yes, quite Kruse
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