I see, so on the evidence that she said NO, when asked if Ectropion was suggested, you are doubting all the others still a big accusation from you, unless of cause you have proof to back up your statement.

Doubting something isn't an accusation---however until the reports are made public---if they ever are. I am entitled to my opinion as is anyone else.

Lets face it----if I hadn't shown you where she lied you'd have gone on thinking she hadn't and defending her attitude and saying the vets were not qualified for dogs----I believe you said they were equine and feline based in another thread? On no evidence at all.

rune

Where have I been defending her attitude

I have not said they are not qualified to treat dogs, simply that if the eyes were at the forefront of the testing, why not get an eye specialist to carry out the examination.

How do you know my statement has no evidence to back it up??

You assume a lot, even to the point of doubting all those with failed dog to be telling the truth.

Havent seen the reasons - but seeing the dog its easy to make a guess

taken from http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/ who makes the valid point as well that on the list the vet currantly has to look at the dog having its wee chap scraping on the ground isnt enough to fail him

Yes please. I could understand a dog at his first show pulling and stuff - but by the time they get to crufts imo it should be a requirement that the dog can move freely on a loose lead. Its not like they have to do loads of complex things like the obedience dogs - stand, let someone run their hands over them then walk up and down - surly the owners care enough about their dogs to teach them to walk nicely

Its a bit of a worry isnt it? either there are no dogs shown on the day that were healthy - or the judge puts other faults ahead of health

You really dont need to be an expert to see that that isnt good

taken from http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/
and I think there should be more requirements - like the ability to close their mouth
Yes true good point - hopefully next year the dogs of types who have been booted this year will not turn up and we will see more normal looking dogs

Then either the standard needs to be changed and/or the judges need to pick health above other faults

or the interpritation of the standard - but yes I think it is in cases like where all the Clumber people were up in arms saying 'but the breed standard alows the dogs to look like that' if these people are too narrow minded to realise this is not good for the dog then they wouldnt breed dogs like that - but they are so bothered about chasing the win they dont care about the dog it seems
So the standard needs changed and the judges need to get strict and just boot unhealthy dogs


That is a still from the video
The woman was saying the vet only booted her dog on a little conjunctivitis cos the room was hot and dusty - yet you can SEE the saggy eye
So sounds like she wasnt telling the truth
and seriously can you honestly defend the dogs posted above?? I am no vet but I am a dog lover and I can see there are NOT the best of the best - they are discusting examples of dogs and everyone should not be defending them but should be sad that we have let them get away with this for so long
Breeding dogs that are like this is actually animal abuse and imo these people should not be winning awards they should be charged

Basset had ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis according to runes link

Yes and some considerations this extract does not make clear is what these cervical "anomolies" are, nor does it explain that they were diagnosed by chiropractors (itself a somewhat controversial discipline), not by vets nor where they confirmed by any imaging.

In terms of any implication in laryngeal paralysis, the context within which I believe you introduced it, this condition also occurs in horses and cats, neither of which tend to be exercised on check chains.

Likewise a number of Yorkies have congenital problems with the cartilage rings within their trachea, an anomaly within the neck that is nothing to do with any pulling or jerking.

As you rightly say yourself, correlation does not prove causation.

I also know of vets who have seen injuries, gait abnormalities and undue stresses to the shoulders and front of the dog from dogs habitutally pulling and jerking forward on some training harnesses (working huskies tend to exert a less punishing steady pull most of the time).

Unfortunately if a dog pulls a lot the strain is going to go somewhere, especially over an extended period of time.

All the more reason to train the dog not to pull, which is not helped by millions of people watching Crufts seeing "top" dogs presented by "top" handlers scrabbling sideways, like the BOB DDB at times, nor the larger number "strung up" so tight their front feet are hardly on the floor.

No vet would try to assess gait and/or lameness in a horse unless looking at it on a loose rein with it's head free. Mind you there were also a couple of dogs that were lame or at least unsound who were still BOB, like the Border Collie.

For someone who has so much to say on the subject of these vet tests you really have very little idea of what they were asked to do.

How about doing some of the (very easy) looking up of details before you make comments like that.

The vet who disqualified two of the dogs can be found very easily and googled---I think I have spoon fed you enough now. If you can then find your equine and feline specialist vets I am happy to accept that.

rune

I think rune did provide as much proof as she could have being as the statement was that she herself (nobody else) doubted the others' statements. Other than saying it, how else can you prove that you personally doubt something????

You'd have to have an awful lot of vets. Eye specialist, skin specialist, joint specialist etc. The idea of the vet checks, I believe, is that they examined as a judge would rather than deep investigation. That being the case, either the judges were lacking in judgement, or they were picking the best of a bad bunch, or they had taken no notice of instructions to base their decisions around health as well as breed standards.

Given it would be impractical to vetcheck all entrants before showing, for the first outing (if not too distressing for the dogs) it would be good to have had 3 vets - Best of three (or two if it doesn't get that far) leaves less room for argument.

That said Ben McFuzzy's Bassett photo is ARGHHHHhhhhhhHHHH!!!