This is probably going against the trend, but this programme gets worse instead of better. That poor Kelpie, definitely lifted off his feet, pushed and pulled about (I'd be looking at a hip x-ray on that dog) and the owners advised to confront a dog that had already and quite obviously been through an awful lot of confrontational training which no doubt caused the problem in the first place.

The Rottie, first day in training an overweight dog and work it to (in Mick's own words) exhaustion - great idea NOT. Much better behaved of course when they went back for the after shots . I wonder if that's why the Mikki muzzle had suddenly appeared (yes, after shots).

The Collie bless it, all it needed was stimulation so at least one of the trainers got at least a bit of it right!!

With most aggressive dogs health issues are not visible, they need blood tests / thyroid and x-rays.
Part of aggression is self protection and includes masking pain so as not to appear weak or vulnerable, one of the most basic and easily understandable inherent traits in animals - except to the BD crew it seems

I didnt watch the ep but yet again I read of a dog doing agility which should not have been doing it, certainly not if full heights were involved for an overweight unfit dog, and on a head collar ????? That man is an utter disgrace, just for the agility idiocy alone :smt021

As i've said. I've not got much experience with aggressive dogs (thankfully) so don't feel I can comment too much, but have been waiting for people to comment more on the kelpie. I was uncomfortable with the amount of force that was being advocated. I'm glad Rob didn't use the rattle bottle (but it says a lot that they asked him to, he is obviously reknowned for it elsewhere, not just in this house!) The dog was lifted off it's feet at one point and it yelped (not an annoyed don't do that to me, but an ow yelp) when it was forced into a sit. It made me uncomfortable, i think if you face aggression and dominance with aggression and dominance, you could be in for trouble. Having said all that I have no idea what the answer is.

Yes - having now seen it, that was NOT a dog being a bully, it was a very frightened dog.

I have some information on it, which makes me very angry, but have to wait for permission to post about it.

Wys, watching it, that's what I thought, but didn't like to say as my experience is zilch with aggressiveness. There wasn't much history given on this dog, other than it had been to classes and 'over loved' by the owners. I just didn't 'get' it at all. I did think the dog was fearful though, especially in that situation, which I (I'll be honest now) found painful to watch. The poor dog was being forced to do things and the poor owner was the same, he was also very wound up and that is NOT an ideal way to be when handling any dog, let alone an aggressive one. It was all a bit odd.

I haven't seen any of these programs, I don't have the right TV but I am shocked reading your posts at the messages that must be sending to other dog owners watching the programme that aggression is OK

Do these trainers go and spend time with the owners in their homes ? No one can know how an 'over loved' dog is handled at home unless it is seen in that environment. I have known some loving homes where slapping a dog who doesn't understand what is expected of it is thought to be acceptable .

Typically a film crew spends about 2 days with each set of owners, and the trainers then get to see this footage. Also, each owner is interviewed by the trainer and here the trainer just has to go on trust that they are not hiding things.

Again though, you are another who is making a sweeping statement. Some people on this site have mentioned some episodes where in their view the wrong method used and shows aggresion to be ok.

Correct me if im wrong (which is likely!) but i think that people only have issue with this 1 kelpie and how people percieved them to be treating the dog aggresively.

How can you say the programme 'must' be sending bad messages to owners? Based on other peoples comments on 1 dog out of the 30 (?) they have had on the programme so far, none of which you have watched?

AJL, sorry, but there have been a number of instances where aggression? is met with aggression and even if the 2 series had only shown the that one case, it was one too many.

Heck, the dog had obvious medical issues, was terrified and actually appeared to be exercising quite a lot of bite inhibition considering the harsh treatment he was receiving.

Any message that says meet aggression with aggression, be it with people, dogs or any other living creature is both wrong and dangerous.

AJL if you are talking to me I don't think I have made any sweeping statements.

There have been a number of occasions when people have commented on what some would consider to be inappropriate methods being used in the programme, not just on this occasion with the Kelpie.

If some of the members here say that they have seen a programme in which a dog receives aggressive treatment, I believe them and trust their judgement without actually having to see the incident for myself.

Every instance of aggression used in training sends out the wrong message to owners some of whom have little understanding of their dogs anyway.

Some of us are trying hard to get the message over to people there are kinder ways to train dogs that does not involve aggression , anyone who does otherwise is not helping to promote a gentler more understanding approach to dog training

I was in chat last night with someone whose judgement I trust, and someone not prone to exaggeration or knee jerk reactions. She was watching the repeat of this episode and telling me what was happening. It got to the stage where she apologised and said she had to switch over, it was making her so angry and upset....
Her judgement of the Kelpie concurs totally with the other views given here that the dog was afraid, probably in pain, had very good bite inhibition, was giving clear signals under the pressure being put on the dog, and that the signals the dog was giving out were being totally misunderstood and innapropriately dealt with, as is all too common with aggression cases.
She did describe the supposed `injuries` the owner had from the dog. From the description I`d say the owner had better not ever play with a ten week old kitten, probably too dangerous to consider