Spocckyboy, I am glad you posted that. We were going to go to Norfolk and suffolk in autumn but we were told never to let dogs offlead there because Chinese water deer not only attacked dogs but just about take a dogs head off. They were not joking but it was something they had been warned about of they went some time ago. It all sounds exagerated but do you know if there is any truth in that, I never thought of deer attacking dogs except maybe breeding season as a defensive thing, any real info on that, thanks we did not go for that reason

In regards to dogs around livestock, below is quoted from the KC website:

Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

Your dog must not worry (chase or attack) livestock (cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, horses and poultry) on agricultural land, so keep your dog on a lead around livestock. If your dog worries livestock, the farmer has the right to stop your dog (even by shooting your dog in certain circumstances).


So why run the risk of having your dog offlead around livestock? An E-Collar won't stop your dog getting shot.

With no guarantee that they do not have young who are too defensless to fend for themselves - left, of course, to die a slow, agonising death through starvation

I've never understood the 'lives in sheep country' argument for e-collars.

Gardens should be securely fenced no matter where a dog lives and, of course, even sheep country has walks that do not involve letting dogs off lead (illegal and inadvisable) around sheep.

A dog with very high drive will run through any pain (even an electric fence which is purported to have a far higher shock level than a collar) so an e-collar is far from a fail-safe if the owner is stupid enough to have their dog off-lead around livestock

No - Its an odd one. We are surrounded by Sheep.

I take Siren herding (usually) once a week, and I have also been using that opportunity to train Zeff to leave sheep alone.

BD, if you watch some of the other vids he has his tail down when playing with the collie. It indecates a state of arousal in him related to prey drive/excitment. Pretty common in some terriers.

Xaedea, I did leave them with the collar and instructions to keep it on on every walk!

Re sheep, the law states under close control, not on lead. Therefore I obey the law, not an inacurate statement.

Also You can stop them in full drive with a good collar as long a syou've done some training with it first. Statements like will run through any pain ect indecate a lack of knowledge of training and behaviour conditioning.

Adam

I'm sorry.....the statment you have made indicates a lack of understanding of dogs. They are not robots.

...and yes - the law sates under control....different people have different Ideas about that....IF a farmer (and it has happened) saw a dog and not an owner (owner may be just out of sight to farmer but not dog.

A dog off lead may under control of voice (or remote electric shocks) but there is NO garuntee that something will not happen to cause that to change......

Most weak/young are then picked off by other predators- foxes (but they tend to just kill rather than eat) and birds in particular. Yes some are left to starve but that happens in all animals especially in the wild. It is common for femaled to die of starvation if they are exhausted from feeding their young and haven't got enough food themselves or could be hit by a car for example.

The reason there are shooting seasons means that animals can reproduce and are given time to do so. Although with pests like pidgeon you can shoot all year around as their numbers aren't low.

Unfortunately death- however caused is part of the food chain, and will get used in some form- worms eat a dead body, which are eaten by birds, which are eaten by bigger birds or cats. Higher up you go in the food chain means that some form of control must be put in place so that numebrs do not go out of control. If people believe that numbers are dwindling to fast a ban or restriction is put to protect (like badgers I believe)

Ok so you are 'Zara' with a Labradoodle who happened to chance upon Adam's posts about e collars so you bought one ..

...although I do not agree with Adam's methods and think he reflects badly on other trainers he is at least a trainer, in your post here you appear to be instructing Adam on how to use an e collar. Just who is the master and who is the pupil here I wonder..

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