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Location: Wales
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,886
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31-12-2005, 12:44 AM
Many other types of dogs were also similarly docked to avoid this luxury tax, and although this imposition was repealed in 1796 the habit of docking particular breeds remained. Given the variety of historical reasons for the practice of tail docking, and the fact that none of them appears to have any continued significant application in a modern, animal-welfare-oriented society, there are no compelling reasons to continue this practice, unless it is done specifically in the best interests of the dog.
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Location: Wales
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,886
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31-12-2005, 12:51 AM
http://www.cdb.org/defra/awbillconsulttaildocking.pdf
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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31-12-2005, 12:57 AM
Until I see some statistics on undocked working breeds and tail injuries which is unbiased (this may well be soon, with docking being banned in many European countires) I'll keep docking. Sorry I'm just not willing to put my dogs health at risk until I'm certain there's no link between the two. For now I'm pro choice.
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Location: Wales
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,886
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31-12-2005, 01:03 AM
I guess they are forced pro choice?As for the gundogs - i can't imagine there were many about in the 1700's... In fact WHEN were guns invented? lol
I think, people continued when the tax was lifted, for the same reasons people continue to dock now - tradition.
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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31-12-2005, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Bodhi
Is your dog pro choice too though...? I guess they are forced pro choice?As for the gundogs - i can't imagine there were many about in the 1700's... In fact WHEN were guns invented? lol
I think, people continued when the tax was lifted, for the same reasons people continue to dock now - tradition.
I think Spaniels were first bred in the 14th century as for guns I have no idea! 
But why continue tradition with one breed and not others??
I have been over and over these points throughout the thread, at the end of the day I do what is best for my dogs. I love dogs with tails and don't agree with docking for cosmetic reasons, but as I've said before there is a distinct air of "ban docking cos the majority don't work anymore" ie we'll do anything to get what we want. Check back there are links that air these thoughts.
Once it is scientifically and unbiasedly proved that there is no link between full tails and injury as a subsequence then I stand by my views, people have a right to choose.
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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Location: Kent England
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 219
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31-12-2005, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Thordell
Can you tell me how you know because if it is done correctly it most definitely is not painfull, I have seen pups who have not even woken up.------------------------------------------------------------------------
I base my comment on information given to me by vetinary surgeons at my local practice and also from correspondence received from the Royal College of Vetinary Surgeons
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this statement is totally untrue as is this one no Standard insists on a docked tail and never has.
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I doubt this statement...In their response the Kennel Club wrote that they had recently introduced changes to include a full tail in the breed standards of traditionally docked breeds...
I believe this has been forced upon them by the numbers of continental dogs entering crufts from countries where it is forbidden to dock tails...
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Can’t see how this statement is correct either what about the dogs that are born with natural dock or those that carry the tail over the back like my own breed the Elkhound the TT or the Pekingese to name 3. They can communicate and they have excellent balance all being used as agility dogs by some, they are not known for fighting either which would happen if they were unable to communicate.
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I am not aware of any breed born with a "natural dock" as you state...As for fold back tails such as your own animal or indeed my previous JRs,...since they do still retain their whole tail, they are very much able to use them for communicating and for balance to some degree...
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If you or someone else can come up with a genuine, proven, and well researched fact that docking in anyway causes problems for the dog I would be very pleased to hear it, not hearsay, no emotive comments, no old wife’s tails just fact please as I have been asking for this since the banning of docking was first mooted and I have never heard a reason that would hold water and till I do I will continue to think that it is up to the individual to dock or not as they see fit and it is no one else’s business.
I am just as totally opposed to cutting off a dogs tail on human whim...There is just as much of an emotive aspect to your opinion, as there is to mine...However I do not agree with your generalisation that I am basing my opinion on hearsay or old wive's tales either...Neither do I agree with your comment that anyone should be allowed to dock or not as they see fit...Mostly docking of the litters of traditionally docked animals. is done for purely commercial reasons to ensure the vendors get to definitely sell them for large sums of money....Currently they do have the choice to have litters docked, provided it is done by a qualified vet....Personally I would like to see the law tightened to make any tail docking illegal, other than for medical reasons...Over time people would get used to traditionally docked breeds having tails and this would become the norm so that in time docking would be considered as mutilating as ear cropping and bark removal is today....
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Location: Wales
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,886
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31-12-2005, 01:30 AM
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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31-12-2005, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Bodhi
Sorry - slighty off topic - 1st recorded gun use maybe???
Schwarz, I thought he made watches! I'm intrigued now! Perhaps I'll ask Jeeves!
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