I would not want to pay more for a pedigree dog than current prices really. In fact, I would think the majority of pedigree dogs are overpriced to a certain extent.

I also strongly disagree that ... "It is a matter of fact that the less that is paid for a dog the less the care goes into to finding the puppy in the first place". We have just sold the majority of a litter of working collie pups for far less than you would pay for a "show" bred collie. The people who bought our pups had been looking for a good quality, working litter with proven working parents, and a decent working pedigree behind them for some time. Just because they didn't pay a fortune for their pup doesn't mean they were just looking for any old pup and it also doesn't mean that a great deal of care didn't go into rearing this litter.

There is no doubt that this type of scenario can and does happen, however this is not the case every time a pup is bought from a farm or out of a paper. To think it is, is rather narrow minded.

So you sold them for £50 each then ? I don't think you will have. I've seen show bred(conformation) litters for £650 & no I wouldn't pay that(mind you I wouldn't buy a BC from showlines anyway.I've also seen obedience bred WSD(especially those that have other breeds off the pedigree)for a similar amount & I wouldn't pay that either.

When I have a minute I will cost out a litter of BC's & I think a well bred puppy will work out @ over £50 cost price

I said you have no guarantees it will live to a healthy age! I didn't say that it would develop something that it has been tested for! I know of a pure bred bc that had all the health testing possible, that died last week, aged 5months! There are no guarantees in life, and not everyone is aware of breed specific health issues, only what breed they like!

That wasn't my question, my question was have you bought a pup with showing or working in mind. IE. have you gone out thinking I would like to show the pup if it turns out a good example!

Yes, but then who will pay for this education. I agree this is what is needed, but until there are vast amounts of money available to educate people, there will me a majority of new dog owners that are uneducated!

I'm referring to puppies, that aren't neutered, these are in effect a direct comparison to a PF bred dog! No papers, still having to pay for some of the vaccinations, neutering etc. They may have been assessed as being healthy, but won't have had the health tests from a reputable breeder. My point remains, a £150 pup from a rescue centre is more expensive than a £50 farm dog. Still no papers etc! The difference being that anyone can buy a farm dog, but you have to go through an interrogation for a rescue one!

What is twaddle is that the less you pay the less effort has gone into buying the pup. The situation above is irresponsible, but at the same time you get some families that will decide that they want to particular breed, look in the paper, see some advertised, go and look at the pups and fall in love with one. They may still have gone through the thought process of which dog to buy, just don't want to pay through the roof for one!

But it wouldn't cost £500 either, especially when some "reputable breeders" are using parents known to be safe!

So out of interest what would you pay for a BC?

They were sold for £160 each. I have paid £200 for a well-bred working collie pup in the past, but wouldn't want to pay more than that to be honest. Of course with working collies, they tend to be cheaper as pups, but then get more expensive as they get older if they have potential as good workers and can command a high price if they are part or fully trained.

Are your breeding dogs fully DNA/clinically tested ? just of out interest not being critical if you do not DNA test

No, we don't DNA test at this time. It is something I am looking into for the future though.

Depends on the breeding for starters, I'm just a bit picky on what breeding lies behind my dogs, for example i do not like the Australian/NZ dogs for many reasons & it would have to be an outstnding pedigree in every other way for me to what a puppy from dogs with these bloodlines-this is what is behind Wukee & Jessie some Australian lines(sadly known TNS/CL producers-one very good reason for having them DNA tested), but the rest of the pedigree is IMHO brilliant ISDS Supreme Ch Wisp, Ob Ch Morena Moss of Maradonar & Ob Ch Charouska Kris Moss(these two twice)& Moss goes back to good ISDS dogs. I paid what I thought was a fair price especially as the bitch had to have a C section & the puppies eye screened & vet checked & reared with no expense spared, which was £400-these puppies would not be suitable for first time dog owners as they are very work orientated & have a lot of drive(Wukee has surprised me by showing good eye towards sheep & ducks). I wouldn't necessarily charge the same for any puppies I breed, I know I will be gifting at least two if not more to some very very special people(these are very very close & dear friends) who will give them the best forever homes possible & I will be keeping at least one so I may have any for sale anyway

Nope, I go out with the intention of getting another companion, if they turn out to be a showable dog/obedience/sheeptrialing etc dog well that's an extra(although I've only ever shown as for enjoyment)

If it happens that Jessie cannot have puppies then I will buy in a well bred ISDS puppy(with the help of Roy Goutte)who I will hopefully breed Wukee to(if his hip/elbow/eye tests are all ok)

Breeding dogs to me isn't about the money TBH(if it was my trial/show/obedience dog would have been at public stud for far more than my petrol expenses taking him to the bitches owned by friends of mine)it's about improving the breed & giving others the chance to own the breeds I hold very close to my heart

edited to add I was gifted Jessie & Rjj by their breeders

It is the way to go IMHO it means that the gene pool doesn't have to be restricted so much because a dog is a CEA carrier for example(Blwch Hemp comes to mind, super producer of top quality working dogs, but a CEA carrier. At least the ISDS are allowing back dated registrations of his offspring & their offspring etc if they are DNA tested either clear or carrier) & also means that we will get less nasty surprises in litters with genetic conditions

I'm hoping to be able to afford to have all the puppies DNA tested(if I ever have a litter)before they leave home for CEA(obviously not required if I use a clear to clear breeding) etc-won't be cheap but I will have peace of mind

Roy Goutte laughed at me for having Rjj TNS tested, but I did it to prove the point that he is TNS clear as those with carriers in their lines like to try to persuade people that all ISDS dogs have it in their lines