obviously a case of breeding for money

like i said it is not somthing i would ever do but if they were in the wild then they would do it regardless. Pet dogs have the added advantage that they have someone looking after them feeding them and making sure they are in good health. I personaly think you need time to get over having pups like you would a baby. I don't agree with it but at the same time i do (its a grey area for me) I think evolution has developed that animal to do that so they can survive

in the wild do dogs not only come into season once a year and also in the case of pack animals is it not only the dominant bitch that breeds and also in the case of pack animals the dominant bitch recieves help in rearing and feeding the pups from the rest of the pack

there you go


Breeding Biology
Wolves are sexually mature when two years old, but seldom breed until they are older. In each pack, the dominant male and female are usually the only ones to breed. They prevent subordinate adults from mating by physically harassing them. Thus, a pack generally produces only one litter each year, averaging five to six pups.

In Wisconsin, wolves breed in late winter (late January and February). The female delivers the pups two months later in the back chamber of a den that she digs. The den's entrance tunnel is 6-12 feet long and 15-25 inches in diameter. Sometimes the female selects a hollow log, cave or abandoned beaver lodge instead of making a den.

At birth, wolf pups are deaf and blind, have dark fuzzy fur and weigh about one pound. They grow rapidly during the first three months, gaining about three pounds each week. Pups begin to see when two weeks old and can hear after three weeks. At this time, they become very active and playful.

When about six weeks old, the pups are weaned and the adults begin to bring them meat. Adults eat the meat at a kill site often miles away from the pups, then return and regurgitate the food for the pups to eat. The hungry pups jump and nip at the adults' muzzles to stimulate regurgitation.

The pack abandons the den when the pups are six to eight weeks old. The female carries the pups in her mouth to the first of a series of rendezvous sites or nursery areas. These sites are the focus of the pack's social activities for the summer months and are usually near water.

By August, the pups wander up to two to three miles from the rendezvous sites and use them less often. The pack abandons the sites in September or October and the pups, now almost full-grown, follow the adults.

i agree that wolves in a pack only have one whelp a year and that everyone feeds the pups, but if a bitch was left with a dog her natural thoughts would be to reprojuice as in any animal, the only difference between wild and pets is dogs only feed the pups milk and we feed the pups meat. you should only breed from a bitch when she is in good healh, as for puppy farming if you have loads of litters a year and you have loads of different breeds, then your farming, and people dont like that tag then they should not do it, i have worked in alot of kennels and no it is not possible to give each dog the attention it needs, so dogs tend to spend most of there time in kennels away from people and other dogs { now thats cruel seeing as it is a pack animal}

I think that kennels that have lots of breeds and advertise in the paper are puppy farms.
Good breeders, I am told do not have to advertise, they have waiting lists. I dont know about this as I am not a breeder (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) What I do know is the place I got Blue from was advertising in the local paper. The place stunk! dogs in kennels were going stir crazy and yes there were lots of diffrent breeds

We waited a very long time and did a lot of homework before we were put in touch with Katie's breeder. He never has to advertise his puppies. He had a waiting list but everyone on it was not successful in getting a puppy [no matter the colour]. We were lucky because we were recommended by a fellow exhibitor [that I know]. In a bitches life time he only has 1-2 litters which are very carefully planned out . From the moment he knows what sire he is going to use he stops going to dog shows to keep the bitch in optimum health and then until after the puppies are weaned and away to new homes.

When our vet thought that Katie had a little problem, he was so helpful and even put us in touch with a specialist vet. As it turned out our own vet was a bit of a scaremonger and thankfully Katie was/is A1.

RV

I disagree with the advertising thing, what happens for instance if a good breeder has only people wanting bitches on their waiting list (as can sometimes happen) and the litter born is all dogs?
Does that mean they shouldnt advertise the dog puppies for fear of being branded a "bad breeder"?

Theres a lot more to being a good or bad breeder than whether or not you advertise your pups.

kenneling dogs is also not an indicator of whether or not someone is a puppy farmer.
If dogs are going "stir crazy" as someone described it, then that is a strong indication that the dogs are not being properly exercised which is not good and shows neglect, as is a dirty kennel, there is no need for kennels to be dirty, it doesnt take long to hose them out and lift the poop, so if kennels are dirty and the dogs are pacing and showing other repetitive behaviours, barking excessively etc, than that could be a good sign they are not being tended to properly.

However, dogs being kenneled is not an immediate red flag to say you are a puppy farmer, neither is having several breeds. no doubt you would all think I am a puppy farmer because I keep my dogs kenneled and because I breed more than one type of dog, well if thats the case, that is your prejudice and the burden you need to bear. I prefer to be more open minded
I have been to see a litter of puppies that were bred on a very rough council estate that were the biggest best reared pups I have ever seen, likewise I have also been to a "posh" ladies house where the pups were kept in a small smelly corner of the garage, hadnt been wormed, and the woman had no idea who the father of the pups was

My point?
You cant always stereotype and judge a book by its cover, you have to dig a bit deeper than that.
many successful show and working dog kennels breed more than one breed, so what? so what if they live on a farm as well? does that automatically make them puppy farmers then?

I think its how the dogs are kept and treated that detemines whether or not people are irresponsible breeders, or responsible, I think the terms puppy farmer and BYB are stupid to be honest, they are labels to slap on anyone we think doesnt do things the same way as us, like saying everyone who wears burberry is a chav or a thug, or everyone who drives a certain type of car is rich, how do you know for sure unless you dig below the surface?

Which of these is a puppy farmer?

Person A - has several bitches of one small breed (lets say westie for example) and breeds them quite frequently, the dogs are kept indoors in small cages and not given any exercise besides running in the back garden once or twice a day. they are kept soley with the aim of producing a few quid for person A to go on holiday and pay the bills. puppies are sold to anyone who comes along with the money.

Person B - has 2 bitches (same breed) kept in a kennel which get well looked after and walked every day, they are in good condition healthy and happy. Person B breeds them because they enjoy it and the money made goes back into buying the dogs food, toys, and general routine worming, vaccinations etc. they breed because they enjoy it and they take the time to vet the homes and make sure the pups are well looked after.

So who is a puppy farmer?
either?
Both?
neither?

I would say neither are puppy farmers, as neither have farms, nor are the dogs kept in conditions which would qualify as being squalid. However, person A is not as concerned about the welfare of the dogs and sees them simply as a money making scheme so they would probably rate as an irresponisble breeder.

Person B takes a bit more care, so I think they would classify as being your average run of the mill breeder.

Some of you might disagree and say they are BOTH irresponsible breeders, and you will have your own reasons for coming to this conclusion but maybe it might make you stop and think because that term "puppy farmer" along with my personal favorite "BYB" gets bandied around all the time these days to the point where people are sick of hearing it and everyone is confused as to what these silly terms mean.

There are good, responsible, caring breeders
There are bad, irresponsible uncaring breeders,

and there are people in the middle who are a mix of both, they care for their dogs, but some people would classify them as irresponsible breeders.

You cant judge which breeders are which simply by looking at an advert in the paper, although phoning them to ask a few carefully worded questions, and really listening to the replies is usually quite revealing.
Is anyone else sick of hearing BYB all the time? I am, I think its a stupid saying, backyard breeder? what about puppies bred in high rise flats in a corner of the kitchen, by someone who hasnt a clue about breding but saw an ad in the paper for puppies and thought it would be a good way to make some money to pay off their credit card????
how can they be called a "backyard" breeder if they dont even have a backyard? I would call them irresponsible, I certainly wouldnt call them a BYB, but then you also need to ask yourself WHY a lot of people do this? many of them dont have a clue, and if you were to sit and talk to some of them in a NICE way and try and educate them a bit, they might actually see sense (stranger things have happened ) and they might think about changing their ideas of breeding and selling pups, but no, its much better to slap a label on people isnt it, much easier just to tarr them all with the same brush, anyone who doesnt fit into a pigeon hole of what a breeder should be, they get BYB puppy farmer label put on them and various *snorts* of disgust made at them and then thats it, theres no hope for them is there?

has anyone ever met a "puppy farmer"? (by that I mean someone who mass produces puppies for sale on the pet market)
These people usually start out as dog lovers with just one or two dogs, then they breed a litter and realise they can make a few quid and then it goes from there, one or two bitches becomes ten or twenty.
Most of these people start out caring for the dogs and looking after them properly, so what happens to make them stop?

GREED

plain and simple, you have heard the saying "a love of money is the root of all evil"
well, its true, puppy farmers dont start out as little kids who think "when I grow up Im going to be a puppy farmer" they start out as ordinary dog owners and lovers, who become engulfed in a greed induced cycle of making money.
I honestly believe from talking to some that it is like a drug to them, it is addictive beahviour.
These people are actually to be PITIED believe it or not, because they have lost their way and let love of money consume them and push aside their conscience about how their dogs should be cared for.

I have met puppy farmers, and they are sad people, caught in a sorry cycle of greed and cruelty, they choose to ignore the way their animals are treated because they can only think of the money they will get. Many of them come from farming backgrounds and have been brought up to believe that a living can be earned by raising animals. They are taught this from an early age so its a natural progression for some to take it one step further and move to breeding dogs which has a higher cash turnover for less overheads
The best way to stop them is to remove their outlets (ie petshops) as this outlet allows them to continue keeping their dogs in foul conditions. They are addicted to it, so they are not going to stop if asked to, lectured to or even threatend.
The only way to make them stop and take stock of what they are doing is to force them to have no other option but to sell to the public direct, by cutting out the middle man and the pet shops, then they will have to either clean up their premises and their entire act and sell to the Public, or continue as they are and risk visits from the RSPCA and other authorities.

The law does seem to be in favour of the puppy farmer, which doesnt help matters, its a difficult situation isnt it?

Hopefully Ive made you all think twice about slapping the label on people unless you know the full facts though

CBT!! That was a FANTASTIC post!! And true! Every word!