ditto.......

sorry but i agree with everyone else. you should not have your dog offlead in these areas when you know he has already killed a sheep!
i think it is totally irresponsible on your part. There is nothing wrong with having your dog on lead, it doesnt even have to be a short one. I keep my dog on a long lead (8 meters) if i am anywhere i dont know, incase of roads or animals that might be around that she could chase. luckily i dont have sheep near me, but if i did i would not let her off the lead at all in these areas. your dog could be shot by a farmer if he is considered to be 'worrying' the sheep. and that could be just being off lead.

dont get me started on the ethics of using a shock collar, the fact that ur irresponsible enough to allow ur dog off the lead in these circumstances says it all

[QUOTE=jess].
I am a responsible dog owner, although some may disagree, and when this happened it really brought it home firstly how quick it can happen, and secondly what is actually inside the cute little dogs that we see before us. They are efficient killing machines. QUOTE]

Jess I assume by some you mean me.

I didn't ever say you were not a responsible owner.

I am sure you love your dogs very much (as do we all on here) and that you treat them incredibly well and have their best interests at heart.

My concern is that you admit that your dog has killed and that it can happen in an instant. I don't think your dog ( or indeed dogs...with a few exceptions...) should be offlead near livestock. I personally wouldn't have mine offlead in those circumstances as I don't want them to kill anything and nor do I want a farmer to kill them. That is my view and my decision, you have your own opinions and reasons for doing things. That's the joy of living in a democracy.

As for restraining dogs, in this instance meaning, putting them on a lead. I have no problem with it whatsoever. Yes, it's great for them to run around ( as mine do daily) but it's also nice for them to be out on a lead, if that's the only option available ( ie in the park when there are lots of small kids around, mine love them and want to go play so are put onlead at that point.)

Jess you asked for opinions on shock collars. Let's get back to that.
I wouldn't use one. I believe in totally positive training methods, not that I don't tell my dogs off, ohhhhhh, believe me I do as they can be right little so and sos....BUT I do it verbally and focus more on the positive ( I'm not saying you don't do that just saying what I try to do.) Therefore, in my training/general life I have NO need for a shock collar of any sort . My life, my style, you have yours.

ps. shouldn't you have researched shock collars before you even thought about putting one on your little dog????

I can't envisage any circumstances where I would ever use one of these collars. The thought of them in the hands of an insensitive owner who lacks any understanding of dogs makes me shudder. I have personally never met a dog that could not be trained with patience/kindness/understanding/consistency and a firm but confident trainer.

I totally agree with Mini - there is never a need for them - it just feels so barbaric to me to have to use them.


When walking near livestock with your dogs its not an option to have them on leads its a must. It just ruins it for every-one else if you don't keep to the rules.

If you lived round here with a dog which chases cattle-it would be dead by now.

I too like walking and always look for clues when entering fields (when there isnt any signs and cannot see far enough to see any cattle) like hoof marks,feeding troughs,very short grass,droppings etc so i know whether to put Vegas on a lead or not.He hasnt got killer instinct,but would without doubt chase them and i wouldnt want his life to end through my ignorance.

Aren't there collars that squirt water that have the same effect of grabbing your dogs attention but without the worry of harming them ? IIRC someone told me they were excellent at stopping their dog that was running after rabbits. If so, you have an alternative should the shock collars become illegal.

Hi
I would not use an Electric Shock collar in any circumastances,I did not know that their were 2 kinds either but would not use a Static Charge Collar unless I had exhausted EVERY other avenue
Just wanted to add that I lived in a village in Wales when I was about 11 and had a a small terrier type dog,well puppy really, he was under a year old.. He got out of the garden and killed a lamb,the farmer came the same day and took him away to shoot him.. he said once he had proven himself to be a sheep worrier then there was no hope for him living in "sheep country" which we did .. every where you looked there were sheep or lambs...My mum was not given a choice.. He said he only came out of curtesy as the lamb was already dead when he got there, and he knew it was a childs dog, otherwise he would have shot him on the mountain!
In light of that I would never allow any dog to run free near livestock, even my tiny Chihuahua.. and definately not a dog who is clearly so in touch with his hunting instinct! Please be careful I would hate to end up reading an altogether different post!
Rachel

Just about my opinion of shock collars here...

I've used a shock collar on my Siberian husky girl, Kieron, when she was younger. It worked a dream. I was able to let her off the lead. I am a strong advocate of never letting a Siberian husky off the lead in an unfenced area, but having no fencing around my home, I wanted to figure out a way that I could let Kieron run her heart out. And I did.

I trained her to come back using the electric collar. To this day she still has a fair recall. Not 100% and that's the bad thing. See, I used the collar effectively, but not smartly. Kieron learned that if she didn't come back when I called, she would get shocked. She was afraid of it.

After I figured out that she was coming back to me out of fear of being shocked, I felt horrible.

I don't want Kieron to come back to me because she is afraid, I want her to come back to me because she loves me, trusts me, and wants to be with me. I want her to please me because it is her desire and her trust to please me. With that collar, she certainly wasn't coming back because she wanted to. It was like forcing her without actually physically forcing her to.

Since then, I have never used the collar on her and never will. I don't want my dogs to obey me out of fear, I want them to obey me out of love and trust in their hearts.

I personally think electric collars are a super training tool. But they must be in the correct hands. If misused, you'll have a dog full of fear.

Just my two cents.