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Lucky Star
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13-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by labradored View Post
YES! Realise this, just wondered as read things about Phenazepam being a substitute for illegal drugs so wondered if there was any potential of misuse for any of the other drugs used in epileptics. Like I said trying to look at all angles of the question and realise my answer will mostly consist of breeders not taking their dogs out of breeding lines and maybe things like perhaps breeders not being informed or plain and simple breeders not wanting to know!
Other things I will be including is that there is no conclusive test to diagnose epilepsy so breeders could use this to deny the accuracy of the diagnosis. that it is easy to put blame the sire or vice versa and continue to breed from a dog, that the late onset means many breeders may have unwittingly bred from an affected dog, that although inadvisable people whose dogs have only one or two mild seizures a year may still consider breeding, and that owners of kennelled dogs may not be present and therefore may not even be aware of it.
Can you think of any other scenarios?? I really appreciate your help xx
Yes, they are then potentially able to suggest the fits might be down to anti-flea preparations, food, vaccinations, head trauma or anything that has the potential to cause them.
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Lacey10
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13-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by labradored View Post
Good , Think I have offended Malka in the process though
I can't speak for Malka,but I think I know where the misunderstanding came in. I myself had brought up the mis- use of drugs possibility but like you I was referring to unscrupulous owners who might in fact falsely give information about their dogs condition to obtain drugs.Not sure if that helps but I think you meant the same way
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Lucky Star
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13-10-2013, 07:52 PM
Another thought Labradored (interesting topic! ) - when you have a dog medicated for phenobarb you have to have the blood levels measured every few months so that they can see if the drug levels are in the therapeutic range or - God forbid - the toxic range.

So I guess anyone using their dog's drugs for themselves would quickly come unstuck because the apparent epileptic dog would show no levels.
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labradored
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13-10-2013, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Lacey10 View Post
I can't speak for Malka,but I think I know where the misunderstanding came in. I myself had brought up the mis- use of drugs possibility but like you I was referring to unscrupulous owners who might in fact falsely give information about their dogs condition to obtain drugs.Not sure if that helps but I think you meant the same way
Yes - that's exactly the point I was trying to make. trying to figure out if there was potential for this to occur not saying that it does but literally trying to gather information xx
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Lynn
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13-10-2013, 08:03 PM
My OH has just said would it maybe something an uncaring owner might try to scam money out of an insurance company for.
Seeings as it states in the question it is rare for a vet to witness a seizure you might be able to get the prescriptions not cash them but claim the money anyway.

I don't think the poster asking the question is for one minute suggesting anyone would do any of these things but is doing an essay has been asked a question and is looking into many possible scenarios re: the drugs side and vets rarely witnessing the seizure.

There are of course always the unscrupulous ones rare thank goodness that might try to make money off the backs of their sick pets, parents or children.
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Lynn
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13-10-2013, 08:04 PM
Linda that's just blown Gorden's theory out of the window.
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Lacey10
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13-10-2013, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by labradored View Post
Yes - that's exactly the point I was trying to make. trying to figure out if there was potential for this to occur not saying that it does but literally trying to gather information xx
I know you were as was I,think wires got crossed a bit. Can see how it could have mis interrupted though Its all good xx
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labradored
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13-10-2013, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
Let me please make some things clear.

My dog has Idiopathic Epilepsy and I buy Phenobarbitone from my Vet for her.

With regard to the Valium that I give her following a seizure, those are prescribed by my GP for me. I get one pack of 30 x 5mg Valium a month as a muscle relaxant as I am a permanent wheelchair user and my muscles and joints lock up, so I am supposed to take one 5mg Valium tablet about one hour before I go to bed, in order for my body to relax.

But I do not take them every day because I need to keep some for Pereg following a sezure. Pereg had a Grand Mal seizure today, just 15 days after the last one, and she needed 20mg of Valium to stop her from clustering.

Pereg had her first Grand Mal seizure on 1 April 2011. I am the only person who has ever seen her have a seizure, but believe me, she has Idiopathic Epilepsy.

And I do not believe that ANYONE would pretend that their dog was epileptic in order to get Phenobarbitone/Phenobarbitol so that they could sell it on the black market.

If you want to think that some people do so in order to get drugs that they can sell on the black market, then you have obviously never owned an epileptic dog or seen your beloved pet in a full blown Grand Mal seizure.

If you think that you can get hold of Phenobarbitone from someone who "pretends" that their dog is epileptic, so that you can sell it on the black market, then I feel sorry for you. Because believe me, NOBODY who has an epileptic dog would want to pretend that their dog has seizures and needs barbiturates.

If I told you how many Phenobarbitone tablets I have, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU GIVE ME FOR THEM?

Only I have them to keep my beloved epileptic dog alive. And so would everyone else who has an epileptic dog.
Your right I have never had an epileptic dog and never witnessed a seizure and it does sound truly truly horrible. I do not believe this drug abuse really happens and agree someone would have to be sick in the head to pretend their pet was epileptic in order to sell prescription drugs in the black market I was merely trying to ascertain the potential that this could occur. I would give you sod all for phenobarbitone tables...this is for an assignment! Iam trying to learn...part of that is exploring possible ideas. I was looking for help not to be judged as some complete sicko!
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Lucky Star
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13-10-2013, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
Linda that's just blown Gorden's theory out of the window.
Lynn - I was just thinking about Gorden's theory. The only thing there is that eventually, the insurance companies increase the premiums hugely (as we are finding out ) so that you would end up paying well over the odds for a bit of valium.

They haven't done any blood tests for valium but then it has a short half-life and is only used during clusters anyway.
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Nippy
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13-10-2013, 08:09 PM
Good post Lynn, I absolutely agree with Gorden.
If anyone can get hold of drugs (or a number of other things for that matter) then there is always someone willing to pay good money for them.

Malka, not everyone is as honest as you even if Peregs Diazepam is misappropriated Does your vet know you give your Diazepam to Pereg?
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