register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Niccie
Dogsey Senior
Niccie is offline  
Location: Buckingham
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 252
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post

The last place to train heelwork is if you've got limited time, I never ask for heel unless I know I can get it, in fact I never ask for anything unless I know the dog will respond.
My dog isn't a 'puller' but walks at the end of his lead. I'm not even considering a halti because a) my problem isn't severe b) I feel if my dog suddenly lunges I would have fairly good control given my own strength and c) I've not seen a happy dog on one or one used properly so have a bad view.

If I saw one used properly then maybe my views would be different!

Tarimoor's comment above describes us at the moment though. This is my own failing but in the mornings I don't have a lot of time to train heel as I want to get Riley walked and tired out before I go to work.
Means lead training is taking a very long time compared to everything else and it is BORING for me compared to other training exercises we do! But got to be done!!!!
Reply With Quote
Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 11:53 AM
Hi thanks for your input - I agree it does seem that whatever "equipment" we are sold can be used abusively. It's like anything we need to be sure it is used properly.

I think my experience of them (not personally but just from what I've seen) is people who are very not very knowledgeable about dogs just see it as a quick fix to a dog that "just cannot get them to walk properly on a lead"- like it happens by magic or somehow instinctive to dogs. And as we all know teaching to walk nicely on a lead has to be trained as the dog's instinct is very different to walking nicely on a lead.

Yes - in my area too there are dogs that have spent their lives on haltis and look as miserable today as they did when pups. So sad.


Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Headcollars can be abused just like collars can, its not about putting one on and hoping its going to teach a dog not to pull, because a puller will pull on a headcollar ora normal collar,

The amount of dogs you see choking the life out of themselves on a normal collar and lead (funny enough its usually collies and springers) walking down the road with a handler being pulled behind them , is equally as harmful to the dog as a misused headcollar that rides up the dogs nose into his eyes , the dog is still pulling and will still pull unless its taught not to.

In saying that the head collar can give you a little more control if and when its needed, I don`t like haltis , they never seem to sit right on a dogs head, I DO like and use (on occasion) "the dogmatic" , they seem to fit better and don`t ride and dig into eyes... that said if the dog still pulls they will be uncomfortable.

I like to use a headcollar with a double ended "halti" lead, fixing one end to the normal collar and the other to the headcollar, only using the headcollar, when and if its needed.

Up to 18 mths ago I had 2 Boxers, that could be walked together on a lead and collar, (I am only 5ft) and because I have spent time with each dog, teaching them to walk nicely on collar and lead, its never really been a problem, BUT I did/do use the dogmatic on occasion, when we go to vets, or in confined spaces, it just gives me an added extra to control an active dog.

In saying that, if you do have a puller and a halti makes life easier for you on walks, then its better to use one, than not take the dog out at all, but you can still use the halti/headcollar to teach a dog to walk nicely....by using the double ended lead.


There is someone near me, who owns a lovely Weimaraner, have watched her walking this girl from a very young pup, and ALWAYS on a halti, the dog is now around 2 yrs old, still on a halti and still pulling, if they had only took the time when dog was a pup to train her,


Its like any tool you use, they can be used correctly and to benefit you , OR they can be abused,
Reply With Quote
Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 11:59 AM
I have a rural track at the back of where I live which leads into open fields (no livestock) and 98% of the time he just has to stay on the lead until he comes off the road about 200 yards, so some pulling has rather sloppily been tolerated by us - but at the moment I'm walking him in the lanes because of the terrible weather and am paying the price for not training him to walk nicely - he isn't a "real" puller or lunger - he just likes to be out front all the time and ashamed to say switches sides every 30 seconds or so!

The trouble is his instinct/impulse is also that as soon as he gets out the house within a short space of time he's allowed to charge off - so keeping him on the lead is very frustrating for him.

Originally Posted by Wozzy View Post
I use them on one of my dogs, but I dont like using them, and my dog doesnt like wearing them. I have several different headcollars, including a Dogmatic and has already been pointed out, he still pulls like a train because I have taught him no different.

Pure laziness on my part because my dogs are off lead 95% of the time and when they are on lead it's only for a short time so my motivation to teach him to walk nicely has always been low. And, given the fact with this particular dog, loose lead walking will always be a chore and will be a constant battle with him, I just cant be bothered considering how little time they spend on a lead.

So, as a quick fix problem I use a headcollar.
Reply With Quote
Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 12:06 PM
Hi Tarimoor

Off topic slightly but I did take him to training but it wasn't a good experience. He became very very frustrated at the waiting around. Their solution to pulling was "checking" which I didn't like at all, one woman bought along her small border terrier and checked him visciously all the time, it was grotesque.

The trainer spent a lot of time on getting our dogs to go down and stay down or sit and stay sitting - for the life of me Icouldn't see the point and had a long discussion on here about that very thing - some agreed some disagreed, but that's Dogsey for you.

He is a very lonesome dog - he doesn't like other dogs and being in a relatively confined space, on a short lead, hanging around - I think did him more harm than good. I won't take him again.

I do the training that's on the Dog's Trust website - walking ahead and stopping when he pulls and stepping back, but now he thinks it's part of the routine, I don't think he links the sudden stopping and returning to his pulling.

I will try the clicker method and stick to it - and like you say do it when I've time and there's no pressure on him or I.



Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
You need to find a good class that will teach you more than your dog. I used to hate training heelwork, but once you actually learn the handling skills to be able to train it effectively, and how to make it fun for you and the dog, it becomes a lot easier.

The last place to train heelwork is if you've got limited time, I never ask for heel unless I know I can get it, in fact I never ask for anything unless I know the dog will respond. At the moment I'm training the flatcoat's off lead heelwork, it's fairly informal for gundog stuff, they don't have to be glued to your leg.
Reply With Quote
Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 12:09 PM
My sympathies - sometimes I too just have to get him out, walked and worn out before I get on with my day.

I agree with most people on here - the most important thing is his walk, so whatever gets me through it. At the moment because of his aggression to other dogs it is getting him walked safely away from other dogs is the most important thing.

Originally Posted by Niccie View Post
My dog isn't a 'puller' but walks at the end of his lead. I'm not even considering a halti because a) my problem isn't severe b) I feel if my dog suddenly lunges I would have fairly good control given my own strength and c) I've not seen a happy dog on one or one used properly so have a bad view.

If I saw one used properly then maybe my views would be different!

Tarimoor's comment above describes us at the moment though. This is my own failing but in the mornings I don't have a lot of time to train heel as I want to get Riley walked and tired out before I go to work.
Means lead training is taking a very long time compared to everything else and it is BORING for me compared to other training exercises we do! But got to be done!!!!
Reply With Quote
katygeorge
Dogsey Veteran
katygeorge is offline  
Location: Cheshire, UK
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,387
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
Hi - absolutely understand your reasoning, mine also charges up the side of banks if he thinks there's cat up there and has caught me unawares a few times. He's not a huge dog but very strong.

A neighbour of mine is in the services and due to go to Afghanistan when his bicep was severely injured by his black labrador (on a lead) attempting to charge off after a squirrel.

Just wanted to check with you is a dogmatic the same as a control headcontroller sold in Pets at Home?
dont know, dogmatic doesnt go tight around the muzzel where the halti does
Reply With Quote
JulieSS
Dogsey Senior
JulieSS is offline  
Location: South London
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 321
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 12:51 PM
How do you know if another persons dog is happy or not? Some dogs just look sad all the time, like my previous Irish Wolfhound. She didn't wag her tail at people she didn't know, didnt get excited - but I could tell because I was her owner and I knew her. That wasn't because of her Halti head collar .
I think it's a bit drastic to say all dogs you have ever seen with a head collar/dogmatic has been unhappy.

Any kind of dog equipment can be abused. Even just a simple lead. Idiots will always own dogs :/ .

I totally agree they need to be the right size and fit and ofc be used correctly. Luckily I have seen very few people jank the lead when it was attached to the dogs head .
I will get one for Marvel soon, purely because he's getting so big and I don't want to risk him pulling me about. He walks alright on the lead, but not if he gets too excited.
Reply With Quote
katygeorge
Dogsey Veteran
katygeorge is offline  
Location: Cheshire, UK
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,387
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
Hi Tarimoor

Off topic slightly but I did take him to training but it wasn't a good experience. He became very very frustrated at the waiting around. Their solution to pulling was "checking" which I didn't like at all, one woman bought along her small border terrier and checked him visciously all the time, it was grotesque.

The trainer spent a lot of time on getting our dogs to go down and stay down or sit and stay sitting - for the life of me Icouldn't see the point and had a long discussion on here about that very thing - some agreed some disagreed, but that's Dogsey for you.

He is a very lonesome dog - he doesn't like other dogs and being in a relatively confined space, on a short lead, hanging around - I think did him more harm than good. I won't take him again.

I do the training that's on the Dog's Trust website - walking ahead and stopping when he pulls and stepping back, but now he thinks it's part of the routine, I don't think he links the sudden stopping and returning to his pulling.

I will try the clicker method and stick to it - and like you say do it when I've time and there's no pressure on him or I.
i did the sudden stop each time she pulled and found she wasnt getting the hang of it so i added a correction each time of saying "ahhahh" and when she was walking to heal i stroke her ears and tell her shes a good girl. now i just have to say "ahhahh" and she falls back in line. i found doing this was always more effective at night when she wasnt so eager once we got the hang of it the other walks just kind of fell in to place. doing this training first thing in a morning was like banging my head against a wall
Reply With Quote
sarah1983
Dogsey Veteran
sarah1983 is offline  
Location: Bad Fallingbostel, Germany
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,180
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 03:23 PM
I used a halti with Rupert for years and he never appeared to be unhappy about it. It didn't ride up into his eyes at all either. I do wonder whether head shape has anything to do with that though. He also didn't really pull, just kept a very slight tension on the leash. I used it so that I had control of his head when necessary. Even in the beginning he never fought the halti.

Spencer on the other hand hates it. I can get him to put his muzzle into it happily, he'll happily let me fasten it and will happily stand there with it on. When it comes to walking though..not a chance. But then he has the same reaction to a baskerville muzzle, fine as long as he's not expected to move with it on, if he is then he fights like crazy to remove it. Can't see his reaction to a dogmatic being any different tbh.
Reply With Quote
lotsforus
Dogsey Senior
lotsforus is offline  
Location: Devon
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 628
Female 
 
24-11-2012, 04:01 PM
My big dog walks beautifully on the lead but I still use a headcollar as if he kicks off I can not hold him back without one. I am only about 15kg heavier than him.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Haltis - any good ? nadine201 Training 14 31-03-2010 03:27 PM
The Humane Society fosters dlboxerdog General Dog Chat 2 13-01-2008 01:12 PM
Red Haltis Wanted fennash Your Adverts 4 30-04-2005 06:59 AM
Haltis rich c General Dog Chat 38 03-04-2005 10:45 AM
Haltis on staffies?? candie General Dog Chat 29 27-01-2005 02:15 PM

© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top