Many foods contain trace elements and neutroceuticals eg bioflavonoids for example that are not freely available in meat bone and offal.

It could be argued that as packet dog food contains all the nutrients that a dog requires it is not necessary to feed raw, but those of us who do not believe that (due to various reasons) choose to argue that point.

A similar argument for example exists around Vitamin C. Because dogs manufacture their own, many people believe that supplementation is unecessary, however many people believe that it is especially in performance dogs (this includes the very few qualified canine nutrition experts).

So for me, knowing that a) dogs are scavengers and often actually naturally pick off fallen fruit and veg not mention consume grasses and herbs and b) that variety is the spice of life, I will always provide them.

In addition, there are several cases where an appropriate fruit can be more advantageous than meat, bone or offal.

Eg a banana is not only a great natural source of pre biotics (essential for gut health and something that works synergistically with probiotics) but a great source of potassium, it is excellent for dogs which may have their potassium levels depleted during/after hard exercise in hot weather.

Providing a meat/bone/offal meal may be a) inadvisable or b) impractical in these situations.

All meats, poultry and fish are high in potassium so are trace elements. A banana would be good if they could digest it. I think a bit of meat is easier to hand a working dog than a blender. Sorry but I cannot see why a dog needs daily veg and or fruit, especially if it has to be pulverised first?

None of my dogs have scavenged fruit. Granted they like the odd apple or blackberrys on a walk when given but thats about it. Especially the dog I have now would have no interest in picking up a fallen apple.

Even if they were doing that,'in the wild' that would still make fruit a tiny part of the diet compared to say, the animal prey they would eat. IMHO no where near the amount some people seem to think they need daily.

If people want to feed veg they can but unless someone can tell me exactly why my dog needs something he cannot digest well then I'm just not convinced I need to be feeding it as a 'staple' part of the diet.

I do agree that variety is the spice of life and as I said, I'm not against my dog having a treat of cooked left over veggies, banana chips, yoghurt etc but its only treats, not part of his main diet as such.

I am sure you cannot see it, luckly I know many trained canine nutritionists who DO see it, one of which I had the pleasure of meeting at the KC Canine Sports Seminar recently who discussed this at length, also a vet at the Royal Dick college and one of only two vet professionals in this area in the Uk.

ps fortunately you do not have to blend a banana, as it is so mushy already!

Ever tried carrying meat around in the middle of nowhere in the blazing sun? Not a good odour!

I can see nowhere in my post where I prescribed particular quantities (large or small) and if your dogs have never scavenged for fruit that does not mean that many many dogs do not, as IME hundreds of them do, I have watched hundreds over the years. Both your experiences and mine are empirical the difference is, my experience is not restricted just to my dogs.

Everyone has different ideas of what their dogs need and individual dogs do have different needs. One of my dogs for example needs far more food per day then received wisdom, eg 2 - 3% of his bodyweight, whilst another needs far less.

Diets are best constructed individually (for both man and beast) and are a mixture of art and science and dependant on not only breed, size, weight, temperament and temperature but of course the sort of exercise/work it gets.

I have no desire to "convince" anyone of anything, I only need to be convinced myself..........

Smokey, I have stated my view on it so no need to get snippy but...

didnt know there were any - they usually sell 'complete' and you still havent said WHY I should feed fruit and veg as a 'staple'

You may not need to blend a banana but I can tell you now - hand a banana to my dog and he wont eat it so what good is that to him?

Thought you lived in the UK? Also there are fridges to use in cars, cool bags and ice blocks. Or you just take it out the freezer in the morning.
So, old wise one, please tell me, how much fruit and veg I really should be feeding, if you dont know ask the and explain EXACTLY WHY.

People know that without speaking to 'experts'

Yet you seem to know/imply what I should be feeding based on, not my dog but hundreds of other dogs, whom I'm certain you dont know the exact diet of.


Because you have no knowledge to convince me with. If you truley believe I'm harming my dog by not feeding him properly then tell me why, otherwise you have no interest in dog health through nutrition but only that your opinion is 'right'


As I said earlier; If people want to feed veg they can but unless someone can tell me exactly why my dog needs something he cannot digest well then I'm just not convinced I need to be feeding it as a 'staple' part of the diet.

This is also getting OT.

Well now you do know there are any! Some vets sell complete, others like Nick Thompson, Christopher Day, Mark Elliot and Richard Allport to name but 4 are enthusiastic raw feeders and do not!

Where did I state that you should feed fruit and veg as a staple, this is YOUR word not mine!

If your dog does not like banana then why would you feed it? Did I say that you MUST feed bananas? Again please show me where in my post I mentioned this. My dogs do not like oranges, if you ate a banana in front of one of mine it would be dangerous as she inhales them whole with skin.

As I said, dogs, like humans are individuals, they have individual needs, likes and dislikes.

Yes I live in the UK, and when I am training or competing I may be miles away from my car in very hot weather (it has happened here) and I would not want to cart meat about with me!

I cannot tell you how much fruit and veg you should be feeding because a) your dogs do not like it b) you don't support it and c) I do not know your dogs; I have never said YOU should feed it! I said that dogs CAN metabolise fruits and vegetables if they are frozen, pureed or cooked and that fruit and veg contain neutroceuticals not available in meat, offal and bone.

I have not implied anything in my post, what you have inferred is out of my control.

Neither have I said that I believe you are harming your dogs, the only person who has mentioned the word harm is yourself!

Whether I have knowledge or not is actually unknown to you at the moment.

Really I have no idea of why you are so defensive. You are entitled to your opinion, informed or not, just as I and everyone else is.

It is really immaterial to me whether or not you agree with my view or not, and I certainly do not feel threatened by anyone who has a different point of view.............

If I may chip in here re the problem of heat and raw meat - I'm a poet and didn't know it!! - we purchased a small fridge which we can plug into the car cigar lighter, as well as into the normal household electricity supply. It holds enough raw meat and bones for a large dog for a few days, and didn't cost an arm and a leg. Also, even in very hot weather, if you pack the meat and/or bones frozen into a cool bag, with or without some ice packs, they will stay frozen for a couple of days if you don't keep opening the bag, especially if you wrap them in newspaper. They will gradually thaw over a period of about 3 days. It is possible to buy ice cubes from most supermarkets, if necessary.

No excuse not to feed raw !!

I know there is no excuse not to feed raw, I feed raw all the time (including veg and fruit) although I do keep some commercial food for emergencies in the car.

As my dogs travel almost everywhere with me whilst working I am very au fait of how to keep raw food cool whilst travelling.

However whilst competing and training in the middle of nowhere I have found it more practical as I said to provide lost sugar and electrolytes via a banana sometimes, whilst back in the car there is food and if I am going some distance whilst walking the banana is lighter than water which is usually left (if possible) at entrance to training/competing area, And of course the banana is digested quicker than meat etc in this context.

This often applies to working gundogs too, although in the cold, a banana is a good way of preventing EIC etc.

Ooh err , just started raw feeding yesterday and off to the butchers now to collect my supplies , its one contenscious subject , I have researched for months and every time there is a new post I get confused again , one thing for sure my dogs are loving raw ! My grey loves bananas as a treat btw !

have a vested interest in feeding as Natures Menu sells....

Why else would you suggest that minces are useful to mix with veg? If you dont need to feed it...especially as I mentioned that and you went on...you also commented on how I you could see it.....(quoted later in this post)



Then why dont you just tell me WHY they need nutrients that are not in meat, bone and offal?

Then why mention mixing veg with minces? good get out clause that one

Especially as you wrote which was after I said and
but your knowledge is based on seeing hundreds of dogs....LOL the 'experts' werent very good at getting their point accross either?

As I said (twice) already; If people want to feed veg they can but unless someone can tell me exactly why my dog needs something he cannot digest well then I'm just not convinced I need to be feeding it as a 'staple' part of the diet.


You started off the 'expert' since your knowledge is based on hundreds of dogs and canine nutritionists etc and that dogs got nutrients from fruit/veg only now you dont seem to know WHY I should feed it or mention any ills from not eating veg...

The reason I mention harm is because if these experts have real reasons for my dog needing nutrients that he is not getting then why wouldnt you share want to share that knowledge?