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akitagirl
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Location: North Yorkshire
Joined: Feb 2010
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03-08-2010, 08:36 AM
Originally Posted by Ang3l View Post
All my puppies are to come back to me if there is ANY problems with there present owners. I'm named as a second contact on ALL microchips. Luckily too all have gone to people I know, so I'll know if there are any problems. Yes if I got asked to take all 3 back in I'd do my damn best to look after them all til I could rehome them myself. It would be hard work but not as hard as those dogs going to a rescue centre !!
Well done, this should be law.

Puppies should carry endorsements that NO ONE is allowed to breed from them without their breeders authorisation.
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krlyr
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03-08-2010, 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by Ang3l View Post
If you aren't going to breed why do you need a 'full' dog/bitch? Life for me will be a lot easier when Molly finally makes it under the knife so I can imagine she'll be extremely happy to just live out her last years as a dog rather than a puppy machine.
There are lots of reasons genuine dog owners don't neuter their dogs and not necessary to breed from them. I think forcing a decision on people that may put their pet at risk of health or behavioural issues isn't the way forward - they practise early neutering a lot in the USA and there are lots of reports & articles against it because of the health & behavioural implications. Yes, all my dogs have been neutered/spayed and my current dogs are too (Kiki by my mum when she owned her, Casper by his rescue) but if I adopted an entire dog in the future I would be having a long hard think about whether neutering was the best option for the dog, and not because I'd ever want to breed from it.

I think laws will be ignored by those who cause the majority of the issues now. Supply & demand, or ceasing it, is the way forward IMO. Compare it to other situations - slave labour and unethical clothing for example. Loads of people I know stopped shopping at Primark etc after the documentaries on TV showed how these clothes were being made. None of them continued their boycott of these unethical clothes stores for long - it's inconvenient and expensive to buy ethical. Ditto to freerange meat. We're all animal lovers here and I'd love to be able to afford freerange meat all the time, but it's expensive and not that easy to source in my town (only one supermarket here, not counting Iceland but they definately don't stock freerange). Convenience and cost limits me to buying freerange when it's reduced and sticking to own brand at other times. People will buy from BYBs because it's convenient and often cheaper. Educate these people about the bad bits of BYBs and get them to go to responsible breeders or rescues instead, and the demand will fall and BYBs won't find it profitable to churn out litters. I think that's the best way to hit them where it hurts, their wallets, but I'm not sure how effective it will really be when society revolves around getting things quickly and easily to suit yourself.
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Jackie
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03-08-2010, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by akitagirl View Post
Why do people disagree with neutering?! Unless you humanise your dogs that much .

It prevents health problems!
It only prevents a very few health problems,neutering does nto give a dog a cast iron health.

I am not against neutering /spaying, but I am for free choice, not everyone who owns an intact dog is going to breed from it.

What if you want to show, you dont want to ruin a coat, you dont want to turn your male into the parks victim of other male dogs.

Neutering /spaying can also be the cause of health issues,
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Tassle
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03-08-2010, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by akitagirl View Post
Why do people disagree with neutering?! Unless you humanise your dogs that much .

It prevents health problems!
I have an entire dog - I see no need to neuter him (he is 8 ) he has quite happily lived through 4 of my bitches seasons without going crazy or mating her.

He temperament is Fantastic, and his health is good, the only thing neutering prevents is testicular cancer - (which I believe affects 1% of entire dogs) I think prostate issues are actually higher in neutered dogs, so to me, the scales are balanced, I am not happy about putting my boy through an operation that may affect his temperament in a negative way and is not likely to benefit his future health.

Bitches - yes - I would agree to that.
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Petticoat
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03-08-2010, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by akitagirl View Post
Why do people disagree with neutering?! Unless you humanise your dogs that much .

It prevents health problems!
Not sure if that is aimed at my post? I have my bitch neutered, I agree with girls being neutered as a bitch that is not intended to be bred can get serious health issues, i.e pyo. Why should I have my boys done? Not only from an aesthetic point of view would neutering change them, it ruins their coats... that aside, they have excellent temprements and I see no reason to put them through an unneccessary operation. It is nothing to do with the cost of the operation, I have just paid to have Codee spayed. My boys have never come close to breeding as I am a responsible owner.
Which is more than some of the numpties that breed their dogs willy nilly. I don't humanise my dogs, but they are not going through an unneccessary op. Unless... it became law.
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Jackie
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03-08-2010, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by akitagirl View Post
Well done, this should be law.

Puppies should carry endorsements that NO ONE is allowed to breed from them without their breeders authorisation.
Many many a breeder already does this, but as in everything in life it is not a guarantee to stop peopel breeding.

All it will do is stop the owner being able to register the pups with the KC,

The only 100% secure way a breeder could make sure the new owners dont breed is send ALL puppies to their new homes at 8 wks old neutered and spayed
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astle9
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Location: Stourbridge West Midlands UK
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03-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
It only prevents a very few health problems,neutering does nto give a dog a cast iron health.

I am not against neutering /spaying, but I am for free choice, not everyone who owns an intact dog is going to breed from it.

What if you want to show, you dont want to ruin a coat, you dont want to turn your male into the parks victim of other male dogs.

Neutering /spaying can also be the cause of health issues,
Can you explain the bit about the parks victim please, if you are implying that neutered dogs are somehow less than entire dogs i would love you to meet my border in the looking after himself stakes plus his coat is in excellent condition and handstripped twice yearly.
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krlyr
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03-08-2010, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by astle9 View Post
Can you explain the bit about the parks victim please, if you are implying that neutered dogs are somehow less than entire dogs i would love you to meet my border in the looking after himself stakes plus his coat is in excellent condition and handstripped twice yearly.
I don't think this was being implied at all. Lots of neutered dogs suffer from being mounted by other dogs (not always entire ones either) due to the lack of male hormones. It's not a judgement on anyone's dog's character or "toughness". Ditto the coat, hormones play a big part on the body in any species, it's not an insult or a dig against anyone, just science. I'm neither pro or anti neutering, I've not been in the situation to make that choice with a male dog so haven't researched it much, but there are pros and cons to both sides so personally if I had to make the choice I'd be doing a lot more research before deciding - aesthetics aside, you can't deny that there are side effects of neutering and they're not always positive.
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majuka
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03-08-2010, 09:28 AM
We could always round up the people that churn out badly bred litters and sell them to anyone with a few quid, with no cares in the world where the dogs end up, and dump them all on a faraway island (with no dogs to be exploitated) and leave them to it..........

Other than the above, I don't know what the answer is. I think stopping puppies being advertised in shops, free papers etc would help slightly. It wouldn't stop the ones who buy from a bloke in the pub but it might reduce the ones who open up the newspapers looking for something to do that weekend and thinking, I know - let's get a dog!

Don't know that I agree with licencing. If the fee benefited animal welfare rather than a general tax that would be better. But tv licencing, road tax, car insurance, mot, all compulsory - not everyone has them. I think it would be too difficult to police the people who keep large numbers of dogs without ever walking them or taking them to the vet - how do people even know these dogs exist?
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Loki's mum
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03-08-2010, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by astle9 View Post
Can you explain the bit about the parks victim please, if you are implying that neutered dogs are somehow less than entire dogs i would love you to meet my border in the looking after himself stakes plus his coat is in excellent condition and handstripped twice yearly.
You ae very lucky that your neutered male can be hand stripped. Most neutered borders have soft fluffy coats that cannot be stripped. I don't think neutered dogs are less than entire dogs, and in some cases castrating is the right thing to do, but not in all cases. All should be judged on their own merits. Spaying bitches has more health advantages than neutering males. I wouldn't have a male done unless there were health and behaviour problems specific to that dog.
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