Although I don't use it any more - I agree that Dogmatic is the most effective headcollar.

Yes Kruzie, but as the ancient Rotties had the muscular strength and Mastiff like physique to pulverise bears, they were adapted for the man-made task of PULLING loads by our ancestors.

Kruzie - there WERE no breeders in those days, the Rottie was NOT bred, it evolved by natural selection and thus was chosen by man to do whatever man had in mind related to the sheer strengh of the animal.

BREEDING is a modern day indulgence, which so very often pollutes a natural species into some grotesque monstrosity that totally destroys the natural dignity of the original animal.
John Bull

Why not try a little training, the Rotti is no more likely to pull you over than any other dog... one with bad manners might,

Yes, you can use tools to help you if you feel you are not strong enough to control your dog on a walk... but training , training, pays off.

Have to say, we have a lot of Rotties in my area, and to be honest, they ALWAYS are one of thee most disciplined breeds walked on a lead.

In fact, there is a little old lady by me, who regularly walks her very well mannered Rotti, I wish I has some of what shes got , to be able to walk with such a big (pulling ) dog on the lead.


You are trying to teach grandmothers to suck eggs here I think.

many of the early rotties were lean, longer legged, with less bone than the rottie of today

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...GB315%26um%3D1

Sorry, but that's rubbish.

You`ve re-wrote the hisory of the breed then

haha, i never spotted that one earlier

that's me told dad!

Wild dogs are subject to natural selection. Domesticated dogs are subject to artificial selection.

I've never been floored by any of my GSDs. Where you walking on mud or ice, perhaps?

From my own experiences, and that's with one big gsd in each hand, yes, they could well pull me over if they lunged forwards, one being 55kgs and the other 32 kgs, and only a few weeks ago, the big boy spotted an Afghan up ahead, the likes of which he's never seen before, especially being a dog which was bigger than him , that has never happened How I held them both I will never know , the naughty one being the big lad, swiftly followed by the inquisitive one who didn't know any better, being only 6 months old at the time, she just did what he did! That was a first for me, but thankfully, due to many years of holding half a ton of horse on the end of a rope, my arms are pretty strong, even though I'm only 5ft7" and 9 1/2 stones!

The point being, IF, they hadn't of both listened to me when I said "oi", "wait" and a quick "sit" thrown in, then the further away from me they got, the more likely I would have been completely buried! That is why, it is actually more imperative to get their instant attention with whatever word you choose to use, mine being "oi" or "wait" so that you then have them completely under control, than any walking to heel in my opinion, I think, but that's just me! Both of mine walk to heel when asked, but there will always come that time, when their instinct takes over, be it a sheep, a cat, another dog, anything, so for me, the attention thing is far, far more important to avoid any accidents.

Never, ever, have him on a stretchy lead if he's prone to zooming off if the fancy takes him, coz I learned that lesson when I first had Georgie and nearly broke his neck! I hate the things with a passion ever since, even though I did use one for my youngster when traininig her up so she could have her freedom, personally I think they're lethal!

My answer has to be training. I feel the more restrictive garbage you put on a dog/horse, the more they will fight it, it's much better and far more satisfying knowing it's you who is doing this, not some piece of equipment!

Awfully sorry to disappoint you my dear on your rather presumtuous remark, but EVERY living organism, all species - including us and all inert matter on the planet has evolved through evolution. How do you think that an enormous and intensly hot gaseous mass became the Earth we know today ?

All basic species of dogs evolved through evolution and man simply developed what was available at that time to suit his own needs.

Breeders as we generally know them only go back a few hundred years, to be realistic only 150-200 years at the most for breed and genetic trimming, in order to get the variety of dogs we see today.

A few hundred years on the Earths evolutionary time clock is a miniscule fraction of a second.

John Bull