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dog-nut
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dog-nut is offline  
Location: New York
Joined: Jun 2009
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21-06-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Snorri the Priest View Post
PURELY as a matter of curiosity, and NOTHING ELSE, what is a semi-vegetarian - what about (e.g.) lamb, pork, fish??

Snorri
(omnivore)
I eat fish and eggs.

I don't want to eat mammals...I try to avoid eating my friends.

I would eat chicken if the conditions on modern farms were not so awful.

For the same reason, I should give up eggs (in solidarity with the suffering egg-laying chickens)...just haven't been able to do it yet.
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Borderdawn
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21-06-2009, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by dog-nut View Post
This issue is hard to explain...easily prone to misunderstanding:

On another thread, there is a discussion concerning the problem of treating dogs like humans.
An example: dressing them in clothes.

I agree this is silly...because I think the vast majority of dogs are not interested in cute clothing (although Ernie does enjoy wearing a costume once a year)

However:
I believe in treating my dog with the same respect and dignity as I treat people.

I allow him to go on the couch, even though he scratches it somewhat...but I want him to feel like an equal in the house.
I think this is important to the dog psyche (he is not a dog with dominance issues, so I don't have to counteract that).

When he barks because his toy is under the couch, I go out of my way to get it, so that he knows I understand his communication.

My family only wants to give him leftovers...but, I give him a token amount even before the meal is done.

In none of these ways do I think I am misunderstanding his identity as a dog.

I am letting him know that me and him are equal friends.

This does not damage my role as his leader....and there is no service I am providing which is outside of his doggy identity.
He has a doggy need to run wild (the beach, the woods, the dog park)...to get dirty...to play with other dogs.
Therefore, I respect THOSE doggy needs.

I think that when some people say "treat a dog like a dog", they mean that the dog must be treated as a second-class citizen.

I think that if you do that, all you will have is a dog.

Dogs respond to respect.
If you treat them as an equal...
(the same way a child can feel that he is of equal importance to everyone else in the house..even though the child knows he has less authority)... then you will have a special dog.
When Orey did that I ignored his annoying whinging and attempts to get me to do something, when he was quiet and calm, I got the ball. Now when he does it, he just lies waiting quietly.
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Anne-Marie
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21-06-2009, 05:42 PM
I take the meaning to be - treat the dog as an animal, not a child-substitute.
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muttzrule
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22-06-2009, 03:43 AM
In my mind, it means letting a dog do doggy things, like bark, and run, and play. I am all for loving a dog, I love mine to distraction, but there is a point at which a dog is spoiled to the point of suffering. Grossly obese, severely fear aggressive for no socialization, toe nails growing into their paw pads, teeth falling out of their head for lack of anything proper to chew on, behavior problems from being locked in crates or chained in yards with no outlet for their energy for 8 plus hours a day, Expecting perfect or human behavior from a dog, etc.

I don't love my dog as a child, or in the way I would love a human friend, I appreciate her uniquness and her differentness from myself and my human counterparts. In many ways, she's better than human. Certainly isn't less than. By treating her as a dog, I am endeavoring to meet her unique needs, her doggy needs, for food ( I don't eat meat, but my pets do, and I have no qualms with that, its natural for them. ) exercise, mental stimulation, and yes, love or sense of belonging and well being.
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janie
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22-06-2009, 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by Anne-Marie View Post
I take the meaning to be - treat the dog as an animal, not a child-substitute.
Exactly as i perceive it
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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22-06-2009, 08:31 AM
i think it is a very missued term
usualy trainers who use it actually believe we should treat a dog how they think wolves behaive
and it suggests that anyone who dosent is wrong

it is wrong to give a dog no rules, that makes for a badly behaived unhappy dog

but i also think it is wrong to subject a dog to a load of madeup rules solely so you can keep your position in the pack
if done fairly it dosent harm the dog but its the mindset of the human i worry about, constantly feeling they are in a battle of wits with there dog

the dna evidence of dogs and wolves suggests they seperated at least 100000 years ago, and that actually they might have decended from different wolf like ancesters. dogs left to go wild do not behaive like wolves, and at best we have a flawed idea of why wolves do what they do

i believe
you treat dogs like dogs and you behaive like a human

you decide what the rules in your house are, be consistant and calmly teach the dog what the rules are
no battle, only training
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