The dog I know that was done for health reasons according to the vet had ended up that way because he was a stud dog, he was very uncomfortable, given hormones in the hope they would help but ultimately ended up with the op, taking on an intact male that has been used at stud could possibly end up with the same condition...
There is pros and cons on both sides of the argument to neuter or spay or not, and I don't think anyone who does neuter or spay does it just for the sake of it, I know I thought long and hard about getting Inka done, and now am faced with the possobility of having Toro spayed, I won't ever be breeding from Toro and she is very prone to phantom pregnancies, so it would be in her best interest to get spayed, though I am still worried about it...
I really feel it is the breeders responsobility to neuter / spay any dogs that they will pass on, the risk of pyometra and hormonal imbalances of older stud dogs should also be taken into consideration when they're thinking of re homing...

ETA after all its the new owners who would be facing hefty vet bills !

Some of the top prize winning breeders in the country would just not spend the money on " yesterday's dogs " they would only be interested in spending the money on the up and coming stars who will be big prize winners and breeders of top puppies

With all my ex breeding stock when they left they were all desexed prior to leaving this was the fee I charged for the dogs. That way I knew they would not and could not be bred with again. Piece of mind for me and the dogs. One particular female had two difficult births the last ended in a ceasarean section and she was desexed prior to leaving. I would not intentionally breed any dog that needed a ceasarian again. In my opinion it is the only way to go.

Very true

And this is exactly the sort of breeder I would buy from (and one day will! I promise! )

I know about professional breeders etc etc. and I know that in many cases it's actually better for the dog to be retired to a new home but I would much rather go with a small time, but responsible breeder such as Becky who keeps all their dogs.

I'm not a breeder, I'm not suitable to be a breeder - I need my sleep and am not up for handrearing pups and don't know enough about it but if I were to choose to breed dogs, I *really* don't think I could ever retire my dog to someone else (unless I saw they were unhappy with me which would distress me somewhat) just because they were no longer 'useful'.

I agree , I would never move a dog on, who has "served his purpose", but there will be degrees of owners/breeders, some will never have more dogs than they can cope with..some, of the big professional kennels will have far to many dogs, they will always have young one waiting in the wings...what would you rather have happen to the dogs who have finished their show career??


We have to be realistic here, these type of kennels do exist, so they have to have a retirement plan in place

But that is one lady with one dog, an entirely different situation to a large breeder with 30 plus dogs.

But are you equally disgusted if it was a service dog being retired to a pet home???



Not sure how you work that out, it will again all depend on the breeder and how many dogs they have, and how involved in the show world they are.

If you are a small hobby breeder , who only has a few dogs, they will more then likely treat their dogs as pets first, and showings second.. those dogs will lead a life like any other pet dog.


The large (and I mean professional ) kennel..where they employ staff, are showing every week, have 30/40 dogs,

The dogs who are showing will have at least some time away from the kennel , it is impossible to give that many dogs ALL individual attention..

It has nothing to do with a better life( in respect of care) it is down to individual attention.

A better life to me, is one where they no longer are one of a thousand, they are an individual dog, one who spends time in the home, by the fire, on the sofa.. with owners who have time to give them plenty of attention.


The fact the dogs in show kennels or any other type of working enviroment, spend a life in kennels does not mean they are ill treated... they just lead different lives.

And to be honest, a breeder who re homes a dog from this sort of enviroment, is one I have respect for... they may realise that the dog has given their all, and maybe just maybe the breeder (if they cant bring the dog into their home) some do! but you cant bring them all into the fireplace.

What is wrong in after a career is finished, you find them a loving retirement home.. the dog will be happy and that is all that matters,

They do it with working horses/police dogs, guide dog, why is it acceptable for them , but not for show people.




It happens, but it happens in the minority..as I said irresponsible is irresponsible... having an entire dog does not make you irresponsible.

I know many peopel who do, and they dont have the sort of problems some seem to think it destined if you have an entire dog

I did not say it was either way... people own dogs for many different reasons, some work some show some are pets.

Who gives some the right to say one way is better than another.

It many not be except able for some who only see dogs as pets , for others to keep them in a kennel environment , seeing them as stock, but the fact is, not every one regards dogs a pets first, but that does not mean they are doing something unacceptable.

The difference between the young dog in the kennel to the old retired one is immense.

the young one will be in work it will be active in the ring, it will be taken out on a weekly basis, seeing new things, it wont be living a life confined to kennel and yard.

The old dog retired dog may not have that,, it may have to life the remainder of its life in a kennel enviroment.. only getting out for exersice.

It has nothing to do with the breeder not being able to care for the dog, but everything to do with giving it a "nice " deserved retirement, whats wrong with giving it a better life doing what most pet dogs do, living in a home by the fire and on sofas



I agree with you, and it is how I see mine too...I would never re home any of my dogs to bring in others, they are here for life , warts an all..

But do you include all working dogs in your thinking , or is it just show dogs.

Yep - and I would not touch a breeder like that! I do not believe that realistically you can give the attention they need to that many dogs. The lady did not have one dog - she had many - she is very well known in the agility world.


I do not like that but I also cannot see it as the same thing - someone who is breeding dogs for thier own hobby verses a dog who has been doing a job and can no longer preform in that function. Added to the fact a lot of service dogs go on to live with the person who worked them.




The difference is that this is a hobby - some people may have turned it into a career which I do not agree with either.

I have no problems with dogs living in Kennels if that is all they have known - what I do have issues with is someone who breeds dogs for profit and passes on surplus when they no longer have room or have oulived thier usefulness.
Sirens breeder had her dogs in Kennels - but she would not have considered passing on an older dog.

If the person is saying the dog is going to a 'better' life that implies that they cannot provide the kind of life they feel a dog should have.


Preaching to the converted...I ahve an entire dog and an entire bitch! I would never put them together and having been through 2 seasons I have had no accidents - and we live in a static caravan!



This is the problem - you cannot give the attention to that many dogs - should you really have that many dogs. What about the ones you cannot find homes for.

Again I say - If the Breeder feels that this is a 'better' life should they really be keeping the dogs like that in the first place?

Although i know nothing about breeding i would have thought it would be the responsible thing to neuter the dog before it goes to a new home to ensure the dog is not used to breed endless litters. New owners can't be relied upon to neuter so i would say the breeder should have it done and then they have peace of mind the dog will not be used for unecessary breeding/unwanted pups. Just my view.

Totally agree, unless the dog was being re-homed to family or a truly trusted friend, then they could decide. Personally though, if a dog is not going to be bred, can't see why you wouldn't get them spayed/neutered but that's a whole other argument

sadly we often get asked by breeders to take on their older stock as they often call them ie no longer needed to breed from and no space s they have younger stock all entire I add , we then spay /castrate before finding them new homes we just do not advocate breeding at all from a rescue dog