Oh yeah. I see how you flipped that one around to support your "god." LOL No, that was not why Ian Dunbar got involved. He's given his reasons many times, but the one that always seems to be his focus is that CM is popular and far too many people emulate him, so if he got involved in one of his books he could open their eyes to their being better ways. Kind of sneaky there, but a smart move. Make people realize how bad CM really is from the inside out.

He knows that those of us who are pro-positive training aren't going to buy CM's books. So the people he needs to teach aren't us. The people he needs to teach are the people who DO buy CM's books. Smart move on his part.

Wilbar, I think Ian Dunbar agrees with you about the title, although for different reasons. See article above, but here's the excerpt. Interestin bit too in that he wants the picture of him with his hand on his dog's collar omitted. Perhaps doesn't go with his image - everything isn't always as it seems, even in Ian Dunbar's case.

I have only two criticisms about the book. First, I don’t like the title because I usually let owners decide on their own rules for their own dog. I consider household and lifestyle rules to be a very personal choice. However, publishers, and not authors, choose book titles and obviously they want to choose a title that will sell the book. Second, there is a really silly choice of photo in the chapter on Hands-Off Dog Training with my hands on Dune’s collar. Duh!?! It looks like I am forcibly restraining Dune from goosing Cesar. I have been assured that this photograph will be replaced after the first printing.

Dunbar was absolutely reluctant to get involved and seems rather uncomfortable with all of it, but he did it for the good of the dogs.

Sorry to disappoint you, Crysiana. CM isn't my god - this seem to be the standard response from some people, if people like Ian Dunbar are called into question. You will note from my posts that my belief is that dog trainers at the level of household names are primarily in it for financial reasons - selling DVDs, books, seminars, sponsorship. They may believe in their system, and wish to sell it, but they are not being altruistic. First and foremost, they are businessmen and women, hawking a product. This applies to Ian Dunbar as much as it does to Cesar Milan.

Ian Dunbar will be uncomfortable with it, Crysiana, as it is not what his followers would expect - him to collobrate with Cesar Milan - but it's basically a financial decision. Whether it is sound or not remains to be seen.

He's stated why he did it. The concern was not money (I'm sure he makes enough from his own books and seminars). I'd rather take HIS reasons for why he got involved than some random person's off the internet.

And Ian Dunbar is not a household name. He might be among people who are passionate about dog training and behavior, but among the general populace, even ones who have read that book, they probably have no clue who he is. Patricia McConnell and Pat Miller no doubt make good money from their seminars, books and DVDs. Are they household names? No. Are they just "in it for the money"? No. Everyone hopes to find something they're passionate about and to make a living from it. That's not being "in it for the money."

What makes someone a household name is when everyone, even people not involved in the discipline, know who that person is. Everyone knows CM even if they're not into dogs. THAT makes him a household name. And since he didn't get known by getting degrees, making a study of animal behavior, by training client's dogs and writing books he thought would help others learn some of what he knows. Since he got known by jumping into a TV show with old outdated methods (and especially when that show is technically not supposed to teach people what to do). THAT makes him just in it for the money.

Dunbar got involved to bring positive training to the masses, to try to COUNTER some of CM's stuff by working on the inside. It makes him uncomfortable but I'm hoping his professional sacrifice will help others.

Ian Dunbar is a businessman, Crysiana, and I tend to look at the actions of a businessman in a different way from you. And I do this whether or not it is CM or ID. You are quite within your rights to your opinion about ID, as I am to mine. Dog training, religion and politics are always going to be decisive subjects. amd why threads are inclined to go on forever!

So then all of us trying to make money off something we love are businessmen. Everyone is trying to make money off something they love because we need money to live. He is NOT just a businessman. He's a behaviorist and a trainer and he's made a LOT of dog's lives better.

It's sad you think that all he does is just about money.

He is a behaviourist, he is a trainer, no doubt he has helped lots of dogs - I don't dispute any of that. But he is also a business man - he sells dvds, he sells books, he organises seminars, he runs a dog magazine where he advertises himself. His first question to himself in collaborating with CM I imagine was "How will this affect my business?". I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. His second one would be "Will this have a detrimental effect on my reputation, and what would be the best way to counteract this, if it happened?". His third one would be liable to be "Will it spread the word about my training system?".

As I said earlier, I look at what he does from a business viewpoint, as this is, whether you acknowledge it or not, a part of who he is. To do otherwise is not to acknowledge the whole person.

Wow are you in his head or psychic or something? I'm amazed at how much you profess to know when I doubt you can say for sure what he was and is thinking.

You'll notice that I use words like "I imagine" and "would be liable". I can't speak for Ian Dunbar, and therefore I make it obvious that it is my opinion that these are the questions that an astute business man would ask, and, if he has any business acumen, should ask - the same way as what you surmise about Ian Dunbar is your opinion based on how you have interpreted his words or actions.