I would never knock just one type of dog whether they be from KC lines or “Irish” lines as I have seen good and bad in both. One of the nicest Staffords I have seen is a KC registered dog owned by my mate Kenny. Still going strong, he is pictured here at 13 years old and can put many young ones to shame.

Prehaps it would be better all round if we did not refer other types of Stafford by other names, it is making a rod for the breeds back. A Stafford is a Stafford, be it from Eire, Wales, Scotland, Peru or England! Im mean jesus, we had to endure "Scottish Bull Terriers" a few years back!! What next Mongolian Staffordshire Bull Terriers?????
The term "Irish STRAIN Stafford" is a very different kettle of fish to the moniker IRISH STAFFORD. A term used to attempt to denote certain strains as superior to others, when it can be no further from the truth.
Irish STRAIN dogs were originated from English stock, but in many a case when being bred for work and not fancy in Eire, were badger work was still legal, and dogfighting easier to get unoticed the KC registration was forgone, why line the pockets of the KC when the dogs were never going to see a show ring?, So there you have your difference. "Irish Staffords" are made up name pioneered by a breeder of Pit x EBTs!!! the name caught on with time once they were being registered with the SIBTC of the early 90's. O'flynn,Psycho and the Dublin reds ( that in themselves are party to tales of fancy, most being peddled from street staff matings to the gullible public wanting to beleive they had something rare and special) were soon added to the list of the IRISH staff "breed" by those who wanted to make a few quid from selling something "special"
I do not beleive in the "Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier" But I DO beleive in Irish strains, such as those down from dogs like Battling Dutchess, and her like. All from...yep..you guessed it English KC lines.
I hear all to often that the outcross in the "Irish" dogs sets them apart, poppycock! Anyone who knows owt about the dogs will be aware the KC lines also have a bit of this and that added to spice things up, papers are not hard to fake!
What I would like to see is the dropping of this Irish staff moniker and the dogs refered to as staffords, and rather than citing the KC staff as a hippo, refer to the SHOW type dog... a far fairer and honest way to disinguish between the reality and the fantasy.
Lets take a look at the APBT, there we have a case in point, years back the show folk decided they didnt want the name APBT so opted for Am Staff, they went there seperate ways of exaggeration leading to an ultimatly different looking animal to the true APBT, but then the APBT show pepole decided sod this, we will show our dogs under the name APBT, and they again moved away from reality creating dogs that look all to like the Am Staff, exaggerated! As soon as a breed is moved away from its original purpose to be bred along the lines of how the IDEAL fighting dog should look, we get exaggeration. Be it to the bulldog or the terrier.
Our task as fanciers of the real stafford is to look at the dogs of pre 1935 and aim to produce dogs carrying those features, and like it or not, for the most part those dogs were small, many solid, little beggers, some were rangy. Prehaps we are looking at a badger dog alongside a strain bred to go dog on dog. As I say we are looking at a functional animal not a looker., but be it dog on dog or dog on Badger, 20" plus dogs were not going to be 10 a penny, hardly an easy animal to keep on the downlow when your getting upto naughty illegal activities.

"we had to endure "Scottish Bull Terriers" a few years back!!"

oi - whats wrong with a good old scottish bull terrier!!! :smt003 :smt003

nothing so long as its just a stafford that lives in Scotland! :smt040

:smt044 :smt003

well i have staffs that have a mix of irish, english and scottish breeding in them so i guess they should get called UK staffs

lets just call em Staffords!!!!!!!!! pure and simple, good ole Staffordshire bull terriers! Youknow what the real shame is, EBTs got to steal the name bull terrier from under the nose of the real bull and terrier, how many problems would that have saved, to be able to call our bull and terriers, "Bull Terriers"!!!

thats true, I mean they all stem from the same source when you trace it right back, although personally i prefer staffs as i think the roman nose of the EBT has been exaggerated too much when you look at early examples of the breed.
staffords sounds best so staffords it is then, who cares what theyre called, its only a name anyway

Yep, a rose by any other name......
unless of course your name is Mike Butcher or you have any time at all for the RSPCA lol!

the name caught on with time once they were being registered with the SIBTC of the early 90's. O'flynn,Psycho and the Dublin reds ( that in themselves are party to tales of fancy, most being peddled from street staff matings to the gullible public wanting to beleive they had something rare and special) were soon added to the list of the IRISH staff "breed" by those who wanted to make a few quid from selling something "special"
I do not beleive in the "Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier" But I DO beleive in Irish strains, such as those down from dogs like Battling Dutchess, and her like. All from...yep..you guessed it English KC lines.

i'd be very interested to hear these tales of fancy u are talking about, ur angle on these dogs is one of many....u would have to ask the guys that brought the original dogs in from ireland why they called them Irish staffs...but i think u would find the real reason less exotic than some of the reasons bandied around.When u have people who breed for the show ring and people who breed for sporting/working purposes.... u will eventually end up with what uv got just now....show dogs that to a large degree suffer from cleft palats, slipping patela's...and cannot give birth naturally, because they are bred for a specific look.....they are not asked to perform any physical tasks so over a certain period of time they lose a very large part of their physical abilities....and then u have the other end of the scale....call them what u will irish /old tyme or what ever these dogs still keep the length of leg ...they are longer in the back...breath more freely ...they are still capable of carrying out a lot of the tasks that the dogs of old were asked to perform ( if this is what ur after)...although these dogs might all be called staffs...they are not the same type of dog.....and to say that these "irish lines " go back to uk kc dogs, well most of the kc dogs in ireland can be traced back to nel of york...but a few of the red bitches can be traced back to irish working dogs in the 30's...but even if they were all down from kc stock initially so what......the difference between kc stock of 15yrs ago and now is the difference between day and night so that dont add up....sadly the kc dogs that are being shown and winning in the ring are sadly on the same slippery slope that the kc bulldog is now at the bottom of...and i for one cannot understand why this is being allowed to happen...surely the most important thing is to breed healthy dogs regardless of ur personal idea's on the dogs this one thing should come before all other's !!

I think there will always be debate over this because the two types are so different and the fans of each type will defend them fiercely.
I like bigger, leaner dogs, give me a big staff any day, I just like them better and as for breathing and whelping better I have to agree with you tusker, having bred small type staffs and larger "irish old tyme, whatever you want to call them " I find the irish type dogs produce their pups much easier and faster and they dont snuffle and grunt and wheeze and shuffle the way some of the smaller staffs do. The shorter the nose and the stuffier the neck the less space there is in there for the air to circulate and the stronger and longer the legs, the better the weight of the dogs body will be carried thats the way i see it, but i have a very black and white way of looking at things sometimes :smt003