After reading the whole thread (what a mission that was) I agree with you Helena. By the way I am obviously a ''Nut and Fruit gather Personally I wouldn't condone hunting anything, I have a fox that comes here regular, a ''old boy'' with his scars, and greying muzzel, I have fed him (not by hand) but he has become a old mate, the squirrels jump doen on the roof of the shed to get to the table for thier food and he just watches them, my cat sits on the roof of the shed inches away from him, and the furries are out in the run. Ok I put the furries in when I go out (just incase, after all he is a wild fox) but he and I have mutual respect of one another. I'd hate to think that he was hunted down, fortunately that should never happen.

I'll continue to be a ''fruit and nut gather''.

Not to get into name calling but actually i would say you are being the one being naive. No he didn't get into no, 10 because of fox hunting but the bill was pushed through in the way it was largely for political reasons - to keep the back benchers support. As i previously said, normally when laws like these are passed they are voted on by all houses. The lords voted against the bill (although to be fair all houses agreed on stricter legislation) so in normal situations, and what is meant to happen in a democracy is that the bill would be scrapped. But in this case Blair used the Parliament Acts to override the decision (something that has only been done 7 times in the country's history). To say that a bill that has been passed in this manner is purely for animal welfare is therefore highly improbable. It also, by the by, smacks of dictatorship and what some have claimed are labour's class war issues.

Arh the Lords such a domocratically elected body of shop keepers there then.

Whether you agree with the house of lords or not it's part of our law making system that was my only point.

Oh and seeing as Labour has reformed the house of lords they are an appointed group of people rather than rich children with power given to them simply because of who they were born to anyway.

By the way, it does seem to me that there is a feeling on here that hunting is considered a "posh" sport. Or a hobby for "toffs" as the name has been used. Although this is very much not my experience, can anyone actually explain to me why this has any baring on the discussion?

I don't think I have mentioned the class of people involved in the hunt in any of my posts. It is not a relevance as far as I am concerned.

My local hunt, the Berwickshire, certainly does have plenty of so-called "posh" members, and these tend to be the paid up members who ride with the Hunt itself, however most of the foot followers are keepers, farmers, etc.

I didn't aim it at anyone in particular it's just that several people have said things along the lines of "silly toffs running around in red coats". As i said, i can't see why this is in any way relevant to the debate about fox hunting but other people have used the phrases so was wondering if they thought it was in some way.

Yes fair point but the House of Lords were not backing the ban because most of them are hunters anyway. Is that democracy then? Also the bill was put on hold during the Iraq war so how can you say that it was pushed through to support Blairs campaign for the war in Iraq?

Country Foxes Kirsty, they used to be beautifully healthy when Terriermen controlled the numbers and they were shot by marksmen. Its only due to increasing numbers and the fact the food is now much more scarce, that they are struggling and disease has crept in.

It is fun! I follow on foot now and I love it, following the hounds across the fields with my binos and I say once more, in 20yrs I have NEVER seen a Fox ripped up, so on that strength, please dont make assumpions that people just want to see animals ripped up, you are very wrong.