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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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15-06-2006, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
WyziwigNot sure what an APDT originator is,
Clob
He started APDT, name of fish, fishton or something, he was called into a GSD rescue, got on his hands and knees and starting barking it its face, should come as no surpise that the dog went to bite him, he told the lady to PTS the dog - she refused and her and the dog lived happily for the rest of its days.
I have saw this barking a strange dogs face nonsense of people hireing people calling themselves behaviourists several times on the UK forums, though, not so much over this past couple of years, it seemed more common around 2002 when I first saw these sites, wonder how many dogs died as result of those 'visits'.
Below is a quoted sample:
"I was told by a very well respected member of APDT association to have my previous dog put to sleep as his aggressive behaviour was incurable. And like a fool I went and did it!!!!!!! I knew very little about training dogs, or their behaviour, and now that I do I KNOW he was certainly not beyond help."
The link you gave comes up with this:
Unfortunately we are unable to find the page or item that you are looking for.Visit the index page for this site.
These are the 'Positive trainers' for you.
I've never in all my life heard of what you are saying, people going up to dogs and barking in their face; sounds more like the sort of thing one US behaviourist might do (name of Sue) but no-one here at all. Do you have any proof or is this just hearsay? and when did it happen?
I think you've been duped or that you are winding us up
The link was interesting as it showed a court accepting evidence that 3 GSD crosses who were in grave trouble were not inherently vicious but, that it was the electric collars they were wearing that caused them to attack and kill a shih tzu and 2 days later to attack a spaniel.
Interesting that the court accepted the evidence against the electric collar, wouldn't you say?
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Location: UK
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Posts: 5,551
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15-06-2006, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
WyziwigThese are the 'Positive trainers' for you.
It's one thing supporting the electric collar and training witht it, but why have a go at innocent people who are just training dogs in the way they believe in without any problems? Hundreds, thousands of dogs are trained happily with positive training each year, my dog included.
You are entitled to your opinion but why the vitriol?
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Location: UK
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15-06-2006, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Clob.............Although it can be misused, so can many other things. I grew up in a family that believed in beating dogs
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to pretend that you can train a strong-willed dog without that sort of application of force is just lulu.
[B
Earl Peel:[/B]|
to pretend that you can train a strong-willed dog without that sort of application of force is just lulu.
[B
It is difficult for me to accept
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............Last weekend, I visited a well known and respected gun dog trainer who lives near my home. He possesses a particularly good young cocker spaniel, but the drawback was its incessant barking at night. It
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disturbed everyone, including the trainer, and the neighbours were not too appreciative of that. He told me that he had resorted to using an electric collar, which had done the trick. I saw the dog, which was full of the joys of spring and clearly adored his master. In no way could he be described as cowed. For me that was a clear example of how the judicious use of an electric collar can be very effective.
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I bet the spaniel wasn't cowed when he was with the trainer - however, he was probably kept in kennels and lonely. He would be overjoyed to see his master and be very happy with him. Poor dog was probably anxious and afraid at night, but of course it's better to go the quick fix route rather than care about the dog.!
As for the not being able to train strong willed dogs without the application of force - tell that to all the people who are doing that all the time.
If these are the people who are discussing whether or not electric collars should be banned or not, heaven help us as they have no idea how to train dogs. It's more like a mother's meeting than anything else!!!
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Location: UK
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15-06-2006, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by uncllou
That's very possible and if I've done that, I apologize to both of you. I'm getting a little tired and that's affecting my proofreading a bit.
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Location: London
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 224
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15-06-2006, 09:59 PM
I've never in all my life heard of what you are saying, people going up to dogs and barking in their face; sounds more like the sort of thing one US behaviourist might do (name of Sue) but no-one here at all.
I think you've been duped or that you are winding us up.
Clob
No, I got to know the poster quite well she wanted to stop her dog barking like crazy in the car and after 2 futile years of this and that used an anti bark collar.
She posted regular on dogchat and was from Yorkshire and as much as you would like people to believe she was not a liar she was not. As you knew nothing of this until a couple of hours ago I think it is inappropriate to suggest that about someone whose online name I have never mentioned.
You can still bring her up and maybe there is a cached page or 2, I might still have it on file somewhere, type dogchat Jan Fennel (aka the dog listener), mad max lady was her online name, I got your Brighton argus page Ill put my comments on soon.
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Location: London
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15-06-2006, 10:01 PM
If these are the people who are discussing whether or not electric collars should be banned or not, heaven help us as they have no idea how to train dogs. It's more like a mother's meeting than anything else!!!
Clob
They were not discussing whether e-collars should be banned or not, they were telling people e-collars were not going to be banned. Once the Baroness heard what e-collars were and took into account KC were extremist in their veiws she withdrew the attempted amendment as opposed to being outvoted.
Extremism goes only so far and then it turns in on itself when people finaly realize that is what is going on.
Quote..Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
"I am pleased to beg leave to withdraw the amendment."
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 935
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15-06-2006, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by uncllou
Thank you so much for having the courage to write this publicly. When these conversations get wound up few people will do so. Usually I get several private emails asking for the info. People don't want to be perceived by others as having an interest for fear that the anti-ecollar folks will focus their attention on them.
thanks for the link I have saved it so will browse at my leisure
Rachel
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
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15-06-2006, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
WiziwigI've never in all my life heard of what you are saying, people going up to dogs and barking in their face; sounds more like the sort of thing one US behaviourist might do (name of Sue) but no-one here at all.
I think you've been duped or that you are winding us up.
Clob
No, I got to know the poster quite well she wanted to stop her dog barking like crazy in the car and after 2 futile years of this and that used an anti bark collar.
She posted regular on dogchat and was from Yorkshire and as much as you would like people to believe she was not a liar she was not. As you knew nothing of this until a couple of hours ago I think it is inappropriate to suggest that about someone whose online name I have never mentioned.
You can still bring her up and maybe there is a cached page or 2, I might still have it on file somewhere, type dogchat Jan Fennel (aka the dog listener), mad max lady was her online name, I got your Brighton argus page Ill put my comments on soon.
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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15-06-2006, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
Wiziwig[Clob
No, I got to know the poster quite well she wanted to stop her dog barking like crazy in the car and after 2 futile years of this and that used an anti bark collar.
She posted regular on dogchat and was from Yorkshire and as much as you would like people to believe she was not a liar she was not. .
Do you have more info on the staffie?