|
|
Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
|
01-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Brundog 
I just so feel so sad, after todays dreadful This morning program, having read the thread on the mums forum slating all staffies, and for the "pit type confirmation of this dog" - which correct me if I am wrong does not confirm that its an APBT but just that its of type ?? Surely they would need a DNA test to prove its a APBT.
Regardless of which its been stated as mastiff, staffy and am bull dog, its not a good thing to happen and for that stupid woman to suggest that every staffie owner with kids should hand over their dogs now before they "turn" ....
God help rescue is all i can say, its already overflowing with no homes, and this will just multiply the problem.
I dont really blame the police - they have so little power( laws ) to actually prosecute they must just think whats the point??
As far as the family are concerned..... IF they were breeding illegal dogs and it was badly done by the sounds of it - it just confirms what kind of people they are....
I just am so sick and tired of it all.
|
|
Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
|
01-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by labradork
I didn't say the bit you quoted me as saying...
As for the rest, yes that's the problem...plus I think the police turn a blind eye..or think they have better things to do than deal with the dogs. Of course investigating if a dog is 'type' is also a long and very probably expensive business with lots of paperwork.
|
|
|
Location: U.K
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,977
|
01-12-2009, 06:04 PM
By the sounds of it most bull breed dogs or crosses could be at risk from being deemed type.
One of the more misunderstood breed types in the United Kingdom, the Pit Bull is on the banned breeds list in accordance with the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act. But the question is, do you know what one is, what they look like or anything about them other than the media hype?
What Is a Pit bull in the UK in 2008?
The use of the term “pit bull” is one that over the last 18 months has become increasingly commonplace yet many people will freely use the term without knowing exactly what it is that they are referring too. So what exactly is a “pit bull” in the United Kingdom in 2008?
Breed or type?
First and foremost in the UK it is illegal to own any dog that is a type of dog known as a”pit bull type”. The breed American Pit Bull Terrier has never been recognised here so by the Government so, instead of banning a breed that they didn’t believe existed, they banned all dogs that looked like them. They attempted to ban a type of dog.
Definition
When the first cases of dogs charged with being illegal pit bull terriers went before the courts a huge problem became apparent. The courts had to decide, beyond reasonable doubt, that a dog was indeed a dog that fitted the “type”. Several Home Office Circulars followed issuing advice but it was decided by the High court in 1993 that a dog was a “type known as a pit bull terrier” if it had a substantial number of characteristics of an American Pit Bull Terrier. In order to decide this they need to know what an American Pit bull Terrier should look like. It was then decided in 1993 to use the breed standard as drawn up by the American Dog Breeders Association at that time. In recent years the ADBA have changed the standard a number of times however the first standard is the one referred to in UK courts today. The High Court also stated that a dog could be of the “type known as the pit bull terrier” regardless of its parentage and that behaviour was relevant but not conclusive.
Identification
Under Section One of the DDA a dog becomes a pit bull type if it has a substantial number or most of the characteristics of an American Pit Bull Terrier as described by the ADBA standard. Substantial or most is normally a dog that scores more than 60 percent. Once an accusation has been made it is up to the defence to prove otherwise, not the prosecution to prove the dog is a pit bull type. The standard sets out 100 points to consider when looking at the perfect APBT. Out of those 100 points only 10 points can be given in respect of the dogs attitude/behaviour. The way a dog is scored falls down to interpretation. For example a number of points can be given for a dog with a muscular build.
Any dog is capable of having a muscular build of varying degrees and each person will have a different idea on how well muscled a dog is therefore leaving several people giving different scores on the same dog. The standard also suggests the tail should rest at the hock however some will give points for a tail that rests just above or below. There is also a lot of debate over various points of the standard and how it is to be interpreted.
As all dogs, even litter mates are never identical one dog may score more or less than its sibling. This often leads to dogs with the same parentage being split into “pit bull type” and not “pit bull type” Sometimes simply by being a little taller, having a slightly shorter muzzle and a tail being a little too long can make the distinction between illegal or legal.
Other breeds or cross breeds can and have been, deemed pit bull type. When looking at any dog stated as being another breed, it often falls to which standard scores the most points. If a Stafford for example doesn’t fit the Kennel Club breed standard for a Stafford quite as well as it does the ADBA standard for an APBT then its quite possible a court will find the dog to be pit bull type.
In the court.
Court is often a bizarre experience for an onlooker. Expert witness’s will take the stand in hearings that often take two or more days to hear fully and discuss each point in turn. The very serious topic of dangerous dogs is stripped down to the bare bones, quite literally. The experts will state whether in their opinion the shape of the eyes is correct, whether the coat is a single coat or not. They will argue over whether a tail is pump handled when relaxed.
They will all produce pictures to try and prove their point. Interpretation of each point will be argued. The dog will be weighed and measured and all will be noted and scored. The Judge will then have to decide if the defence have proved beyond reasonable doubt that the dog isn’t a prohibited type. It is not up to the prosecution in Section One cases, to prove the dog is a pit bull type to obtain a guilty verdict.
So there we have it. That’s what a pit bull type aka “dangerous dog” is in the UK legal system today. Its any dog that a judge believes scores enough points, mainly in conformation, on a breed standard that is no longer used in that exact form as a standard for that breed.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHT GUYS?
|
|
|
Location: Ohio USA
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 565
|
01-12-2009, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by hades
Just read this article, and thought I would post it for you all to read.
By the sounds of it most bull breed dogs or crosses could be at risk from being deemed type.
One of the more misunderstood breed types in the United Kingdom, the Pit Bull is on the banned breeds list in accordance with the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act. But the question is, do you know what one is, what they look like or anything about them other than the media hype?
What Is a Pit bull in the UK in 2008?
The use of the term “pit bull” is one that over the last 18 months has become increasingly commonplace yet many people will freely use the term without knowing exactly what it is that they are referring too. So what exactly is a “pit bull” in the United Kingdom in 2008?
Breed or type?
First and foremost in the UK it is illegal to own any dog that is a type of dog known as a”pit bull type”. The breed American Pit Bull Terrier has never been recognised here so by the Government so, instead of banning a breed that they didn’t believe existed, they banned all dogs that looked like them. They attempted to ban a type of dog.
Definition
When the first cases of dogs charged with being illegal pit bull terriers went before the courts a huge problem became apparent. The courts had to decide, beyond reasonable doubt, that a dog was indeed a dog that fitted the “type”. Several Home Office Circulars followed issuing advice but it was decided by the High court in 1993 that a dog was a “type known as a pit bull terrier” if it had a substantial number of characteristics of an American Pit Bull Terrier. In order to decide this they need to know what an American Pit bull Terrier should look like. It was then decided in 1993 to use the breed standard as drawn up by the American Dog Breeders Association at that time. In recent years the ADBA have changed the standard a number of times however the first standard is the one referred to in UK courts today. The High Court also stated that a dog could be of the “type known as the pit bull terrier” regardless of its parentage and that behaviour was relevant but not conclusive.
Identification
Under Section One of the DDA a dog becomes a pit bull type if it has a substantial number or most of the characteristics of an American Pit Bull Terrier as described by the ADBA standard. Substantial or most is normally a dog that scores more than 60 percent. Once an accusation has been made it is up to the defence to prove otherwise, not the prosecution to prove the dog is a pit bull type. The standard sets out 100 points to consider when looking at the perfect APBT. Out of those 100 points only 10 points can be given in respect of the dogs attitude/behaviour. The way a dog is scored falls down to interpretation. For example a number of points can be given for a dog with a muscular build.
Any dog is capable of having a muscular build of varying degrees and each person will have a different idea on how well muscled a dog is therefore leaving several people giving different scores on the same dog. The standard also suggests the tail should rest at the hock however some will give points for a tail that rests just above or below. There is also a lot of debate over various points of the standard and how it is to be interpreted.
As all dogs, even litter mates are never identical one dog may score more or less than its sibling. This often leads to dogs with the same parentage being split into “pit bull type” and not “pit bull type” Sometimes simply by being a little taller, having a slightly shorter muzzle and a tail being a little too long can make the distinction between illegal or legal.
Other breeds or cross breeds can and have been, deemed pit bull type. When looking at any dog stated as being another breed, it often falls to which standard scores the most points. If a Stafford for example doesn’t fit the Kennel Club breed standard for a Stafford quite as well as it does the ADBA standard for an APBT then its quite possible a court will find the dog to be pit bull type.
In the court.
Court is often a bizarre experience for an onlooker. Expert witness’s will take the stand in hearings that often take two or more days to hear fully and discuss each point in turn. The very serious topic of dangerous dogs is stripped down to the bare bones, quite literally. The experts will state whether in their opinion the shape of the eyes is correct, whether the coat is a single coat or not. They will argue over whether a tail is pump handled when relaxed.
They will all produce pictures to try and prove their point. Interpretation of each point will be argued. The dog will be weighed and measured and all will be noted and scored. The Judge will then have to decide if the defence have proved beyond reasonable doubt that the dog isn’t a prohibited type. It is not up to the prosecution in Section One cases, to prove the dog is a pit bull type to obtain a guilty verdict.
So there we have it. That’s what a pit bull type aka “dangerous dog” is in the UK legal system today. Its any dog that a judge believes scores enough points, mainly in conformation, on a breed standard that is no longer used in that exact form as a standard for that breed.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHT GUYS?
While everyone continue to argue, nothing is done. What do you think the judges should do??
|
|
|
Location: God's Own County
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
|
01-12-2009, 06:29 PM
What you are saying is that ALL Bull breeds are dangerous-including Bulldogs, French Bulldogs, Boxers, Bullmastiffs ?????
How do you know the dog in your village is a male collie x female SBT ?
We have a nasty dog that roams our village the breed ? A working Labrador(roams when it's owner isn't off on a shoot) ! It isn't a cross it is a Pedigree(non KC) labrador.
Perhaps the dog in your village isn't nasty because of it's breed towards your dog, but because your dog is entire ever thought of that ?
Not so long bad it was the Rottweiler that was the devil dog, before that it was the Dobermann & before that the"Alsatian"
Even Peter Neville got his facts wrong re the most dog bites in the UK, it is & has been for a long time Labradors-mainly because they are by a mile the most bred breed/non breed in the UK(in the region of 90,000 a year of which over a half are not KC registered) & the most popular"pet"dog.
It's about time that the owners of the dogs that attack are properly held to account, no dog is born to kill humans, the environs in which it is keep & the way it is treated have far more effect on the dog than it's genetic make up.
No matter what anyone says, it's is the owner of every dog in the world's responsibility to ensure that their dog is never put in the situation were incidents of this tragic type happen. It isn't accidental, it's negligence.
|
|
|
|
Location: w
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 10,769
|
01-12-2009, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Shona
big hug dani, but having met bruno, I can hand on heart say, hes one of the nicest staffies with people I have met in a while xx
|
|
|
|
Location: Ohio USA
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 565
|
01-12-2009, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
No matter what anyone says, it's is the owner of every dog in the world's responsibility to ensure that their dog is never put in the situation were incidents of this tragic type happen. It isn't accidental, it's negligence.
|
|