There's no way they can guarantee this unless they follow up neutering, either that or do 6 monthly visits for a female, but for a male it'd be impossible to know.

It's not contradictory at all. Breeders cannot help that owners don't stay in touch and then might want to SELL the dog on because they don't want to lose money, or are simply too embarassed to give it back. Ethical breeders are not responsible for people having brain farts !

My 24 page !! argument with AnneUK is about responsible, reputable breeders making profit on breeding.

The people responsible for producing the MOST unwanted dogs (the original question) are puppy farmers, closely followed by BYBs.

As I said way back, if 1 puppy from every single litter ended up in a rescue centre, PFs and BYBs would still be at the top of the list because they produce so much. Ethical breeders try their hardest to stay in touch with their pups, although through no fault of their own, often owners move without letting them know etc, so they can't, and if that pup then gets sold on or rehomed, how are the ethical breeders able to step in ??

I wa going to explain about BYBs but Rips did it very well.

I've been in the dog world a while so please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I think BYBs are people that breed in their back yard

Well reputable breeders have more of a chance of guaranteeing this by extensively vetting people beforehand to find out their future intentions with the dog etc and also by placing endorsements on paperwork. Of course it doesn't always work but the point being made is that the best intentions are there, unlike unethical breeders.

This is the point being made. PFs and BYBs do NEITHER, and often advise people to breed, or recommend they do it for health reasons, or tell them to do it so they can make money back etc, therefore making the pup population much worse.

I've been in the dog world a while so please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I think BYBs are people that breed in their back yard [/QUOTE]

ok Its your turn to go to the blanket cupboard

By 7mths old, many bitches have had a season and are sexually mature, males are much more mature too and testicles are descended etc.. how can that be said of a puppy of just 12wks?

Its convienient for you to adopt American tacticts when it suits you, however do you adopt the same "ethics" in de-clawing, de-barking too? or do you just follow suit with regard things that suit you?

Im struggling to understand this, my vet wont neuter this young and I expect its only rescues (not sure how many) that are adopting this practice.
Dawn.

Just to add, my vet won't neuter anything this young either! We were discussing when to get our tom kittens chopped, he said he'd prefer us to wait for seven months for full maturity!
I honestly haven't heard of any vets being willing to neuter this young, except from rescue.

I spoke to my vet this morning on the matter of neuturing and at what age it should be done , his reply was no younger than 6 months , in his practice and he has been a vet for over 20 years and has not yet heard of it being done at 12 weeks . xxdk

Where I work (a rescue) they will not neuter/spay til the pup is at least 6 months of age.

Mo

True, but that's why I wrote this following that paragraph:
Funny how you seemed to miss this point out isn't it?!

If you're going to quote posts to make a point, Anne, please make sure you quote the whole post and not just the part that you deem relevant to your "argument".

All our pups are neutered from 9 weeks. Our local private vets recommend the same