Exactly, most, not all. How, when you buy a working Springer, are you going to know whether it should be docked as it may well retrieve animals that are killed on a small local shoot where the poulation does need controlling (therefore in some peoples eyes being seen as "correct"). I don't get pleasure out of seeing animals being shot - I get pleasure from the pleasure that my dogs get from fulfilling their purpose. Please do not tar us all with the same brush (I do not condone hunting purely for pleasure). Plus field trials are also available for working gundogs - no killing necessary. Docking however would be as the dummies will be located in all manner of places. However, hunts will still go on as they are, in places, still needed.

Also I don't think many chickens commercially raised for the pot have much chance of escaping either when they're hanging upside down on the conveyor belt waiting for their throats to be slit (sorry not nice, but very true). Heck, at least a wild bird has had the chance to fly. May not apply to you Patch, but it'll apply to the majority of anti dockers/hunters.

At the end of the day life is all about risk, there is a risk of a Springer getting a severly injured tail during a hunt/field trial. I think the risk is worth prevention because I'm in favour of working my gundogs, you disagree because you're not in favour. Simple as that when it boils down to it.

A very good point and for this reason I think I'm ready to bow out, I've said all I can say and am starting to feel I'm just going round in circles answering the same questions. At the end of the day some will never see my point of view, no matter how many reasons I give for my pro docking stance.
I'm happy as long as my dogs are happy. Which they are. Apart from Pickles sadly, who ironically isn't docked. He's only fit to be retrieved rather than retrieve.

I'm assuming, as you've mentioned a small local shoot that you are talking about pheasants? These don't need controlling as they are released to be shot. If, on the other hand, you are meaning rabbit control, I take back I have said back.

The only field trials that don't involve shot game are the pointer and setter trials. Field trials for retrievers, spaniels, hpr's game is shot for the dog to retrieve. Working tests, which are organised out of the season, use dummies.

I have kept out of this debate as really, you are never going to change people's views on the subject. I have working gundogs and am pro docking. I do have an undocked ESS who had problems with her tail when she used to work (she is now retired). She also happens to have only 3 legs, and managed to work for 2 seasons before she retired. Yes, her tail has helped her but so would a working springer tail help her as they are docked a lot longer than show.

Helen

As I said:
Thanks for the post though.

I know what you mean about other dogs not getting on with boxers as well, from what I have seen as there have been a few at the club, it is the dogs that have undershot or very prominent bottom jaws that get the worst reaction as it looks like there are showing teeth, apart from that I feel its there enthusiam and bounce that freeks some dogs out, they go at everything full speed full slober full bouncy play face, and other dogs are like whooow is it a bird is it a plane (nope just a good old boxer) Have to say my rotties love boxers (sickeningly so) because they can cope with the rough and tumble, they are great dogs if you have the energy for one,

awe thats so sad, I cant see me giving up a breed i love because of a few inches of tail, just getting more for your money lol, but then again I have rotts and whilst I prefer the docked look It doesnt change what the dog is to live with, love and own, there will be some that say if a tail is enough to put people off a breed then mabey they did not really love the breed for the right reason. I think everyone has a right to there own choice and opinion but sadly the choice will be taken from most breeders in the spring,
its a hard subject and there is not a right or a wrong attitude.

I can indeed confirm the speed your Silks tail moves, which conveys so clearly to other dogs and humans alike her lovely just want to be friends with you all nature.
I just wish my poor Shady could do the same as she really is such a friendly girl who just wants to love everyone.
Unfortunatly her lack of tail along with her sheer size and enthusiasm worries people that she may not be friendly and other dogs because she is Black with dark eyes and no tail to convey she wants to be friendly mistake her rapid advances as aggresive so often bark, growl, nip or have a bite at her, leading her to now suffer fear aggression towards some dogs, mainly Border Collies where her worst experiences have come from.
Luckily we do meet a few very friendly dogs whom she will play happily with once she has established they are not going to try and nip, bite or hurt her.
I think its sad that someone could want a dog to have its tail chopped off before they could own it. I personally don't like to see any dogs without tails, but it doesn't stop me having or loving my Shady just because I like tails. I love her for who she is not what she has or hasn't.
My JRT seems to be loved by all dogs and he loves them all back, now I wonder if this is because dogs can read him better with his tail and would things be different if he were docked. That I shall never know, but I do know a previous JRT of mine without a tail had many negative responses from other dogs making her snappy back towards them. Maybe all coincidence but it does make me wonder.

I am pleased to say my JRT seems to have no trouble being tailed and has never done the slightest bit of damage to it.

What confuses me a lot, is when cross breeds are docked.
We get a Rottie cross Lab in the kennels a lot, who is docked. (he looks nearly full lab, apart from his size and face shape).

We have it here in most state of Australia, but in NSW a case went to court, where the RSPCA had raided a register breeder and took the docked pups. The register breeder won her case against the docking with the judge saying that the puppies were banded not docked. So it will be a very interesting time in the courts.
The register breeder end up with more problems though, The RSPCA had desexed and sold the pups and from what I understand this litter was from Imp Frozen Semen and it was the dam's last litter

I think once it all filters through to the shows etc it'll become common practice to leave the tails on anyway unless the dogs are genuine working dogs. It'll take time but I reckon it'll police itself

Ive never been intrested in docked breeds, but i actually didnt know dobermans had tails untill last year....and im 23 years old!! and i didnt know they had ears either!!!

anyway.......... Why do some dogs have there tails docked? is there a purpose for it?

and do the dogs have some say in it?!!