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Shona
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22-01-2009, 12:23 PM
arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why wont it work for me...stamps feet
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hades
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22-01-2009, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
Well I can't see the video but I think I know the episode - does Ceaser end up with holes in his jumper?

If so, I think you have to watch the full episode before passing judgement. The dog would attack either of his owners on not being able to get at another dog (and for other situations where the dog couldn't do what it wanted). Now the attacks were not full on 'I'm going to killl you' but imo he was trying to dominate his owners because he was manipulating them throuh fear to try and get what he wanted.
yes he does have whole in his jumper!!!!
I agree, from that clip, you dont get much or any info of why the dog is there or if he had done this in the past.
So I totally agree with you
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magpye
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22-01-2009, 12:39 PM
I have seen this episode and I know the story of the dog in question. Shadow is a pushy Husky/malamute crossed german shepherd (basically a sort of first generation NI). He was a dominant dog as a puppy, but his behaviour got worse as he got older. This couple rehomed him when he was a year old and was already too much for his original owners. He is fine with their dog, if a bit dominant and pushy, but goes mad when he sees another dog on a walk. When he can't get to them he turns on his owners in frustration.

The owners had tried many different things to stop him including a prong collar, but not long into his session with them, Cesar removes the lead from the prong collar as the pain is aggravating the situation. He moves the collar up on the neck so that he can keep the dog from biting him, but in classic Malamute/husky style Shadow rears up and uses his dew claws to ear into Cesars arms to try to get him to drop the lead...

This was not a quick fix by any means and there was little Cesar could do but to finally win this domination fight or the dog was never going to change his behaviour.

The 'cure' for this dog: Neutering and regular walks around other dogs. Shadow is now a happy calm dog and no longer has these impressive acts of dominant behaviour.

Cesar generally believes that unless you are going to mate your male dog twice a year (and he doesn't condone breeding as a rule) then you are not fulfilling his needs unless you neuter him.
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Hali
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22-01-2009, 12:39 PM
From what I can remember, Caesar had calmed the dog once it had first seen the other dog (which was a neighbours dog that he hated with a passion) and was just thinking of handing over the lead to the owners when the dog went for him. As I say, I can't see the clip but I'm guessing this is when the clip started and the only bit you see is the dog being strung up and having another go at Caesar before the dog finally realises that his usual tactics are not working and 'gives in'.
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Shona
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22-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by magpye View Post
I have seen this episode and I know the story of the dog in question. Shadow is a pushy Husky/malamute crossed german shepherd (basically a sort of first generation NI). He was a dominant dog as a puppy, but his behaviour got worse as he got older. This couple rehomed him when he was a year old and was already too much for his original owners. He is fine with their dog, if a bit dominant and pushy, but goes mad when he sees another dog on a walk. When he can't get to them he turns on his owners in frustration.

The owners had tried many different things to stop him including a prong collar, but not long into his session with them, Cesar removes the lead from the prong collar as the pain is aggravating the situation. He moves the collar up on the neck so that he can keep the dog from biting him, but in classic Malamute/husky style Shadow rears up and uses his dew claws to ear into Cesars arms to try to get him to drop the lead...

This was not a quick fix by any means and there was little Cesar could do but to finally win this domination fight or the dog was never going to change his behaviour.

The 'cure' for this dog: Neutering and regular walks around other dogs. Shadow is now a happy calm dog and no longer has these impressive acts of dominant behaviour.

Cesar generally believes that unless you are going to mate your male dog twice a year (and he doesn't condone breeding as a rule) then you are not fulfilling his needs unless you neuter him.
is this a uk dog? I still have not seen the vid,. but what im going to say may shock some, I have been on the end of a very dominant dog on a good few occasions{ I take on aggressive dogs other trainers will not touch thought } and I will say, you either win the challenge or get hurt. I have always decided to win,
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magpye
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22-01-2009, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
is this a uk dog? I still have not seen the vid,. but what im going to say may shock some, I have been on the end of a very dominant dog on a good few occasions{ I take on aggressive dogs other trainers will not touch thought } and I will say, you either win the challenge or get hurt. I have always decided to win,
No it's a US dog. I'm afraid in this case and similar I have to agree, there was nothing else Cesar could do. He had to win this or he or the owners would have got seriously hurt and the dog would have been euthanised. As for 'stringing him up' if you watch the episode, the dog is rearing and jumping, Cesar is just keeping his teeth away from him.
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Meg
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22-01-2009, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
From what I can remember, Caesar had calmed the dog once it had first seen the other dog (which was a neighbours dog that he hated with a passion) and was just thinking of handing over the lead to the owners when the dog went for him. As I say, I can't see the clip but I'm guessing this is when the clip started and the only bit you see is the dog being strung up and having another go at Caesar before the dog finally realises that his usual tactics are not working and 'gives in'.
Yes thats it Hali, thats the one

There is a big danger here though, the dog has been suppressed by a strong minded person using force. It appears to be on the floor and calm at the end of the video but that does not mean the aggression has gone away, the dogs suppressed aggression can be redirected elsewhere .

As I posted earlier as I have suspected and many highly regarded people have stated this man is creating 'ticking time bombs'
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Ace_Animals
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22-01-2009, 12:50 PM
Having seen the episode in full, I would agree with CM in that the dog appeared (from what we, as the audience could see) to be asserting its dominance over its handlers. When it showed the dog being walked by its owners you could clearly see this. It was using other dogs and its frustration over not being able to go over and "meet them" as a process to assert dominance over those at the other end of the lead.

I got the clip to work simply by clicking on the link, waiting til everything had loaded and then simply hovered my cursor over the video block on the page. When the cursor is over the block the little "Play, Pause, Stop" type option bar pops up along the bottom of the video block. Have you tried hovering your cursor over it, shona?

In that situation, given what I recall from the rest of the episode regarding what the owners said about the dog and its general behaviour, amount of exercise, how it was as a puppy, etc, etc. then I'd have done the same thing myself.

As you say shona, with cases where a dog is trying to assert dominance over the handler there really is nothing else that can be done other than to ensure the dog realises that it isn't going to win the battle, or indeed the war.
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Ace_Animals
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22-01-2009, 12:54 PM
Regarding CM creating "ticking time bombs", indeed this might be true but this could be said of all training methods really. Ultimately animals will be animals. Dogs will be dogs. Even the most well trained and well behaved dog on the planet might some day decide to lash out at someone or another dog or anything really.

So, to be fair to CM, I don't see his methods being any more risky regarding "ticking time bombs" than any other trainer/behaviourist/owner.

The approach CM takes to re-train the owners (i.e. asking them to walk their dog more often, stop treating it like a small child, make sure the dog understands the owners are "top dogs", etc, etc, etc.) is, in my opinion, the best way to prevent a dog from becoming a "ticking time bomb", and, as such, I'd say that CM is probably the least likely trainer we've seen in recent years on the telly to fall victim to this.
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Shona
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22-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_Animals View Post
I got the clip to work simply by clicking on the link, waiting til everything had loaded and then simply hovered my cursor over the video block on the page. When the cursor is over the block the little "Play, Pause, Stop" type option bar pops up along the bottom of the video block. Have you tried hovering your cursor over it, shona?
right im off to try that
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