How on earth would anyone provide proof of anything which may or may not happen in the future??

Can you prove it won't happen for instance?

Its a really silly thing to ask for and doesn't enhance any discussion/arguement.

I think it might happen, you think it might not happen.

As it stands neither of us are likely to find out!

rune

fifteen

I did not think this was about illegal docking? I thought this was about docking a litter where dogs were potentially destined for the show ring? That does not make the docking necessarily illegal does it? All that has to be provided is the possibility that the dogs 'could' be worked or the owner has the correct paperwork and some vets will dock.

SO in theory - people could choose to dock knowing that most of the dogs (if not all) will be shown and not worked?
You cannot prove it would not happen?

I never realised before (I just read the CDB write up of the legislation) that the dogs can't be shown if people pay to go there.

Although I do note that it also states any dog docked before the law came in can still appear at any dog show and dogs docked after the law came in can still appear in dog shows but only to 'demonstrate its working ability'.

Where Scotland has a total ban on docking, you can still show a docked dog!

Blimin' stupid, as I have said before, if a dog has been legally docked, they should be able to enter into shows... no matter if its a 'entry fee' show.

I agree it is a silly law.
My personal feeling is that the ban should be outright.

No the threads not about show dogs , its about duel purpose dogs, that are exculded from some champ shows, due to the fact they have been legally docked

The majority of gun dogs that are purely shown, or shall I say their breeders, have accepted the ban, and just get on with it, tails are now common place in the ring,.

But the campaign is about those kennels who do both with their dogs, show and work, , (as fit for function) and you can get, yet because they legally dock their dogs, they are unable to show at Crufts and any other public fee paying event around the country,

the reasoning behind it is because some members of the public may get offended seeing docked dogs,

That is the silliness of the exemption when as I said earlier, you will still see docked dogs, whether they have paid or not to get into said show, you can even see a docked dog win, so why penalize some dogs from showing when they have been legally docked.

Tried to reppie you but wouldnt let me.
Welsh Springers are a dual purpose dog , by which I mean we have no distinct working strain.
Although I dont work my dogs a lot of my friends do both and in it's not unusual to see them work there dogs one day and have them at a champ show the next.
With regards to encouraging docking of show dogs, it would still remain illegal and the vast majority of show people wouldnt risk.

It is not illegal to dock gundogs or terriers PROVIDED you meet the relevant criteria. So for example, if you have a shotgun licence and the dogs are microchipped you have met the legal requirements.

Whether or not you will ACTUALLY work your dogs or the future owners of your pups will, is neither here nor there!

......

I have only ever had 2 Welshes through classes - neither have been docked. Although one is a inside the docking ban (he is 2 1/2) the other was a bout 4 years ago.

NOt sure what the frown is for, however if you are a breeder and you intend to have your dogs worked and you have 6 definite customers for them, what do you do if two of them pull out for reasons beyond their control?

Perhaps it would be better to kill the dogs rather than home them with people who have them as pets?

Remember, dogs have to be docked at no later than 3 days of age (if I remember correctly) you do not chop them off later (unless they have been damaged).

As I said before whatever YOUR personal feelings are about docking, it does not alter the fact that if you meet the legal criteria then no fraud or dishonesty of any kind is occurring!