You can not compare the work a spaniel and any other breed of gundog at all! Spaniel's are bred for going plummeting through the undergrowth and giving it all they've got, as fast as they can as if satan himself was on their heels-it's total different work.
I too once owned an undocker JRT, and i must say at times it was a nightmare! She was constantly tearing it, getting nicks n picks in, coming back from walkies with blood splattered on her-it was most trying at times and put her in a LOT of discomfort.

I think it was raised on here, and it has been elsewhere-does this 'ban' exclude working dogs?
If so, there is no way of telling which will be brought as a worker let alone make the grade at a few days old, then won't the breeders just have the whole litter docked and say it is a 'working litter', regardless?
I really think this is a ridiculous new law, with a thousand loopholes that can and will be breached by people, and I really do not think it can be policed.
A family friend had an undocked dobe (was pts after being involved in a RTA) and she was forever getting it cut to pieces, she even fractured part of her tail once from the constant thwacking against things!! I have known a fair few undocked, traditionally docked, breeds-very few have lived lives without tail trauma-so to say it is the minority, to me, is ridiculous.

Well I know he cant be too bothered otherwise he wouldnt of bought her would he? I mean I wouldnt, would you?
Dawn.

She was bored and is a little camera shy - admit it, her tail set in the pics is part of what led you to evaluate her as looking subdued
I know Kizzie well and have seen her in various moods, including very happy and high-waggy. She does`nt wag any more furiously than my own dogs though, and she has never injured her tail.

The breed standard for undocked Dobes is `Set and carried high with an upward sweep. In overall balance with the rest of the dog.`

As with all dogs in the show ring though, the tail posture is judged at a specific movement gait, and when standing during which many breeds` tails are held or guided by the handler into the optimum position. The rest of the time, the dogs hold and use their tails in many ways not `acceptable`to be seen in the ring.

The breed standard for the Border Collie tail is `Tail may be raised in excitement, never carried over back.`

But many Collies do carry them over the back depending on what they are doing and what their mood is at the time - it does`nt mean there is anything wrong with the tail, it just means they use them for more purposes than going around a show ring at a specific gait

My Silks tail is rarely still and can match any Springer tail for ott action as Madmare can confirm [ if she see`s this post ].
In fact Silk is one of the only Collies Madmares girly Shady can cope with, because Silk is so non-confrontational and adjusts her manic wagging and overall postures to give good calming signals to other dogs to whatever level she deems appropriate by their reactions to her.
In Shadys case [ a dog with an understandable dislike of Collies ], because she herself was initially unsure of Shady`s intents as Shady barely even has a stump and has typically stiff legged and stiff backed `aggressive looking` [un]natural posture as a direct result, she gave off all the best signals to show Shady she was not a threat to her and her tail use toward that was very obvious indeed.
Shady is one of the daftest, soppiest, most people loving and playful dogs I have the pleasure to know, but to anyone who does`nt know her, if she bounded toward them to say hello, they would think she was aggressive because the typical docked dog gait resulting from having a large amount of spine missing, combined with not showing how high or low or at what speed her tail would be wagging [ ie happy wag or unsure but hopeful wag and all the other levels tail use conveys ], she has few options in how to show that she is very friendly and just hoping for a cuddle or a game.

Thats such a shame, to only consider a dog `acceptable` as a member of your family because of whats missing instead of the rest of the dog as a whole
Isn`t the breeds intelligence, character, and the companionship of a dog more important to you than a stump ?
I rescued a docked Dobie from a horrendous situation and I loved her dearly - as someone as anti- docking as I am who adored her for being her, regardless of her having an ugly stump, it seems sad that you could not bring yourself to love a Dobie with the tail nature intended

Nope patch I couldnt have one here, not for any price, I dont like them. There are many things I dont like as I am sure you are the same, I would never have a docked breed that wasnt, nor would I have a green Car, I dont like them either!
Dawn.

I agree. A breeder I know who is high up in the showing world has decided to stop breeding her breed as her or her husband can stand it with a tail and A friend of mine has the breed with a tail and it dosen't look 'right'. This is a very powerful subject and I respect everyones views.

Haz.

I have an un-docked Dobe, a lovelier natured Dobe you couldn't wish to meet, I have also had three Dobes in the past who were docked. To me the most important thing about a Dobe is it's nature. Perhaps those who are more interested in the missing part of a Dobe don't deserve to be loved by one. Kizzie is beautiful by the way.

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=34350

I also have a docked Vizsla and an undocked Vizsla, I don't love one more than the other, it is far more important to have a good temperament than a tail or not. Cody's tail was not a consideration at all when he needed a home.

When I adopted my Fluke from rescue it was not dependant on whether he had dew claws or not [ he does as it happens ].

When I saved my Dobie from the beating she was being given in the street, while pinned to the ground by the ears and being punched repeatedly on the head, the last concern on my mind was that she had no tail or dew claws, and her lack of them played no part in me deciding to keep her.

Kizzie the Dobie is 8 years old, going on 9, so he was lucky to get her with a tail at that time. Most Dobes are still routinely losing dew claws now let alone then.

I don`t know the circumstances of why she does`nt have hers. If it was done before her owner found the breeder obviously it would have been too late to have any say in it, but that doesnt mean he was happy about it being done and as they were so hard to find fully tailed it may not have been a predominant factor.
It does mean he put having a healthier tailed dog over one which could develop all manner of problems documented as pertinant specifically among docked dogs.
As to the whys and wherefores of her dew claws, I don`t know, I haven`t asked him, so it would be entirely innapropriate for you, me, or anyone else to speculate or make assumptions about it.

And again, the topic veers off course - dew claws are a different topic and should not be used any more than training methods for this or that activity to justify or deflect from the removal of part of a dogs spine, which is what this thread is about



.

I rescued a Dobe too Patch, he had "wobblers" I still rescued him though, and the Rottie that was with him.

Fact is when personal choice comes into it, anybody can have whatever they like. I wouldnt have an undocked Dobe, a: because I dont like them, and B: because I have seen many damaged and end up being docked in the end anyway!
Dawn.

So true about the nature being what should matter, not the missing bit. Your lovely lad sounds like a real star :smt049
I shall pass on the compliment to Kizzies owner

Well said, thats it exactly :smt023