I agree, that IS barbaric and is NOT how they are meant to be used at all.

I agree again. That IS outdated, cruel and barbaric IMO also.

I disagree with how you believe e-collars are meant to be used. They are NOT meant to hurt when used PROPERLY. Yes they work on a similar principle to spray-collars, although spray-collars are not always effective as I have described earlier. TBH I think flooding a dog's nose with citronella until it can't smell anything else is cruel - at least the shock from an e-collar doesn't linger in the way spray-collars do.

Sally, why do you think ecollar were designed? Why do you think they are made with higher and higher settings?

I don't actually like spray collars much either but I have to say, unless you spray a dog repeatedly (in which case it is becomes ineffective anyway) you certainly don't flood a dog's senses and if the citronella is a problem you can get ones that just use a short puff of air...).

Having seen dogs get static electricity, I can assure you it's nothing like the shock emmited from an e-collar, no matter how you try to convince yourself it is Apart from that a static shock is static, it cannot be controlled, an e-collar can be adjuted to inflict pain !

Two wrongs certainly do not make a right!

Smacking your dog is wrong
Giving electric shocks to your dog is wrong

It's a bit like saying which is worse:

Punching your mother-in-law on the nose

or

Outting a live wire to the metal door knob of her bedroom, so when she gets up to leave her room she gets a nasty shock!

What's most worrying tho, is why do you want to know which one is worse? Are you considering one or the other?

To use as a disciplinary aid when training dogs.

Adjustability. Some dogs have much higher pain thresholds than others. Also, a dog's pain threshold may be affected by the adrenaline rush it experiences while it is engrossed in compulsive and/or obssessive behaviour. As the dog learns to listen to you more and not get quite so wrapped up in its unwanted behaviour, you keep turning it down as the training goes on until it learns to control it's obsession better. In all the cases I have heard of, the e-collar has been turned right down to either sound or vibrate after just a few times using the quick-shock button.

I fear you have only ever seen e-collars MISused and assume that that is the way they were meant to be used.

I am not trying to convince myself and you haven't assured me. Static collars (or e-collars) use STATIC electricity - that's FACT. It IS the same as the electricity given off by metal objects that have acquired a build up of static electricity. That is why they are often called STATIC collars.

The shock given off by e-collars is static too. They use STATIC electricity!! As I have said, the only difference is that an e-collar CAN be adjusted and controlled.

If you want to misuse it and inflict pain, yes it can. So can your hand, a lead, a toy, a stick or any manner of things you might use with your dog. This doesn't mean the OBJECT in itself is cruel, it's its MISUSE by BAD handlers that is cruel.

It's the same with smacking - there are many owners here who have 'confessed' to 'smacking' their dogs. Are you saying they are all cruel owners? Or perhaps you can accept that each owner recognises the difference between 'smacking' to shock a dog out of its focus and 'smacking' their dog to inflict pain or fear?

sorry can you use a better example - youre not selling it to me haha

I'm just trying to answer the question put by the OP.

Try telling that to the farmers who shoot dogs on sight if caught in their field. I'm not saying the farmers are wrong, but that in this case the law seems to disagree with that statement.

I`m starting to wonder if you aren`t arguing for the sake of it? Please don`t feel backed into a corner on this - you of course are entitled to your opinion, but the idea that a farmer is entitled to shoot a dog without cause is plain wrong.
The reason I am trying to counter your statements that electric shock collars are neither harmful nor hurtful is that certain `quick-fix` behaviourists advocate their use - and they are freely available for all to buy. It worries me that someone will read your statements and assume it`s fine to use one on their dog.

The 2 should not be compared...and for the record I do not and would not hit my dogs. I have no need to. If they misbehave I look at why and use positive training to sort it out.