It's not that easy Malady and not so black and white, especially when you have the breed clubs recommending these unethical/fake ethical breeders

Yes it is.

You go to shows, you speak to breeders of the breed, and breeders and exhibitors of other breeds too, because most always talk to other breeders of other dogs.

What do you call a 'fake ethical breeder' ?? Just someone who does everything right, but doesn't take back dogs ??

If that's the case you would find that out by talking to other breeders at shows etc.

I really dont see the problem, you seem to be looking for excuses not to do research and accidentally buy from an unethical breeder !!!

If they dont do everything they say, they are unethical, regardless and other breeders /exhibitors will tell you that.

But often other breeders don't know themselves. Hence the whole reason I started this thread. If you can think of another way great.

Other breeders dont know what ??

You are obviously referring to a specific point, which is what ??

What do you think they are hiding that cannot be discovered ?

Quite the opposite. How can we prevent owners from buying puppies from breeders who make out they are ethical when they are not.



The fact that they don't always take their dogs back. The whole reason for this thread, to name and shame those who don't. On the outside they come across as ethical even to other breeders, but when push comes to shove they refuse to take back their own. These fake ethical breeders are the ones who give genuine ethical breeders a bad name. No wonder rescues get so angry when they're told ethical breeders dogs don't end up in rescue. These are fake ethical breeders not genuine even though they come across as genuine i.e health tests, occasionally breed to further their line, recommended by the breed clubs etc etc

You`d call them unethical or BYBs, they are the same thing, BYB encompasses any breeder not doing things ethically.

Nope, if not above board and ethical in every way, imo they are BYBs [ unless on big scale then they are puppy farmers ]

That definately causes confusion to owners, a back yard breeder is someone who doesn't show, doesn't breed to further their line. Back yard breeders include only one litter and those who breed purely to make money

Thats not what she said
No, a breeder who refuses to take a dog back [ unless for good reason like they are ill or something like that - the breeder I mean, not the dog ], is not ethical and would therefore be a BYB.

Paddywack, like I said, there are means and ways of finding things out.

In every breed, breeders talk to eachother, and the unethical ones out themselves in the end, either through conversation or through facts passed around. Like I said you would know this, if you went to shows and spoke to breeders etc. Speak to the Breed rescue and see if they would give any advice, as there are some breed rescues that will happly tell you who's dogs come in through them.

There is a very well known breeder in my breed who shows very successfully, with 1 dog, yet he breeds like a puppy farmer. Yet to anyone unknowing you would see him at a show, go to his premises and see all the rossettes and paperwork etc and be none the wiser, yet I'v known many of their dogs to go through a rescue with the paperwork. When they were contacted they refused to take back any dog and refused to acknowledge they were breeding too much. However, if ANYONE had spoken to anyone else who shows where abouts they show, they would be told exaclty what that breeder is like. It's because people don't ask enough questions to EVERYONE that they end up being duped into buying from an unethical breeder.

You can find out the facts if you really want them.

I agree with you on that, it actually sickens me that people breed `for agility`, those who do are not interested in bettering any breed, just adding more rosie`s to the pin board and trophies to line a cabinet.
Many of the best agility dogs around the world come from...rescues - they just don`t get seen on the world stage because of no papers or being crossbreeds.

There is a fad at the moment to breed Collie x JRTs for agility, which imo is purely to get a `fast brainy dog` which will measure Medium as its the least populated class so more chance of grasping at the trophies.
Yes I have one such cross, yes she will do agility, trainig if not competing - because its an activity I can offer her if she enjoys it - however just to make it clear I adopted her from rescue because she is a deaf dog whom I have experience to offer to give her a nice life, I never adopt a dog with agility in mind, I adopt for the love of the dog and then look to what activities I can offer that dog for his or her enjoyment, based on that dogs likes and dislikes and physical abilities, end of.

As with all activities or jobs, no one can guarantee all - if any ! - of those pups will be up to the task they are bred for either mentally or physically, especially deliberately bred crossbreeds as is happening in agility at the moment, and frankly I find it not just unethical but downright appalling that anyone would breed purely for an agility `market`, its just a hobby, a bit of fun.
When so many dogs in/from rescues could, and often do, easily excel at it, there is no justification whatsoever in my opinion for anyone to specifically breed `agility dogs`, it should not be a `primary` consideration, it should be considered a bonus if any ethically bred dogs `happen` to be good at it [ or any other `sport / hobby ], the same as any dog from a rescue / pound / wherever being offered any activity to do.