I think thats a fair comment Dawn, I have also been told dogs use their tails to communicate and Docked tails make that process harder. (not sure about the human and balance bit though)

Good point about DewClaws though, think my breeder was a bit backwards, tail docked, but left dew claws on

Why is it so funny??

Now I've seen Boxers with tails, it makes me sad when I seen Max's mum and dad wagging their little stumps, when there's no need for them to be docked.

if you go into the link which has the act details (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006...0060045_en.pdf
the details are on page 6 I think

Try to think of it as democracy in action (which it is) - at least the society we live in is one which allows you to say it's crap! I doubt whether people like the Taliban would be so "lax"

Snorri
(Thankful to have a non-docked breed, although it didn't feature in the choice)

So what problems have they had "communicating?" You acknowledge the "wagging of the stumps" I assume you mean you know they are happy when doing it? You often say Max is with his sire, dam, sibling etc.. they obviously have no problems at all letting eachother know how they feel. Thats why its funny, its rubbish to suggest dogs cannot communicate without a tail!
Dawn.

I know many people have said that Boxers don't get on with other dogs, and its been suggested that this is partly due to the shape of their face and the fact they don't have tails (did come across someone this morning who actually thought Boxers were like Manx cats and were born without tails...).

Max gets on fine with his family (his sister is also undocked) and most other dogs (except JRT's never seem to like him).

I think its mainly people whom the issue of non-communication is with. Most people look at a dogs tail - if its wagging, they assume the dog is friendly.

Without a tail (especially with a larger breed dog) maybe people are more apprehensive about larger dogs because they can't "read" them as well?

I also think it's sad to see the stumps wagging when there was no need for them to be docked in the first place as they are not working dogs.

Spot on!
Dawn.

Kizzies is not carried high when relaxed as is perfectly evident on the photo, nor are any others [ properly tailed Dobes ], which I`ve seen. They are used the same as other naturally low tail set dogs. My Collies and My Lurchers natural tail set is low but they do curl them and carry high, and have them straight out and straight up and all manner of other positions for different purposes.

Silk showing tail use as rudder for turning


Silk wagging with high curl


Defa using low base set with higher end set for balance


Defa having done a sharp right turn then needing to go atraight forward, tail use is clear as he whips it across to steer his body ready to go ahead to the next jump



Defa`s normal low tail set



Willow using tail for balance [ he`s a rear leg amputee ]



Fluke using tail for balance



Fluke high curled set



Flukes normal tail set



Another shot of Kizzie in relaxed stance



If you`d only ever seen the photo of Fluke with his tail curled high, would you assume thats how it is all the time ? I get the impression the Dobes you may have seen with a high curled tail are either from one off pictures like the one of Fluke or you are seeing pics of them *using* their tails for a specific reason, either during an activity or when responding to something they have seen or heard exactly the same as Fluke in his high tailed photo...

A Dobermanns tail should be set level with the back and carried gailey but not over the back. Many are set high now, like Terriers. Regardless of how they are set and carried, a Dobes tail looks awful (again MO only) and they do get damaged with furious wagging, not all of them I grant you. The Dobe in both of those pictures looks somewhat subdued, I dont mean anything by that, Dobes often do, but i cant see what set or carriage the tail is, I can hazzard a guess and say it will be carried fairly high and is of a curled appearance, but perhaps not as curled as Flukes.

Personal choices Patch, at least with the Dobes, i have owned 2, co-own one and there will never be one with a tail here, but thats me.
Dawn.

Funny in what way ?
Balance is pretty important to a dog, as is communication.
I know what my dogs are conveying by the different ways they hold and use their tails including how high or low they hold them and at what speed they move them either in part or the whole tail.
Its important to be aware of these things in terms of reading them in various situations, to know if they are happy or not, relaxed or not, concerned or not, in the various environments they visit and toward the people or animals around them.

Different tail positions utilised by dogs, [ whatever their natural physical build set may be ], and knowing what they mean, can be the difference between a dog attacking or not by the signals being read correctly and reacting appropriately, [ either being `read` by people or other dogs ] - thats very basic stuff imo.

Didn`t he ?
I have`nt asked him how he feels about something which was done before he got her - perhaps you have...