True although I was referring to the so called "fresh" produce in shops and stores that has been hanging around in transit or storage for sometime before it is sold.
This is the reason I buy certain frozen fruit and veg. rather than unfrozen produce unless it has been newly picked by myself or a known person.
Batchelors for one firm claim their peas are harvested packed and frozen in the same day.

I'm not convinced that fruit and veg in any form are a necessary source of food for dogs.
Nothing to stop one from feeding it though if it goes in and comes out the other end ok ,then no probs.

Yes acid creates heat so I suppose one would have to consider that as cooked.

Can't stand the thought of eating completely raw flesh myself.

I know what you mean about "fresh" produce in shops - I moan that we are limited with what we can get and that it is so seasonal, especially fruit, but at least I know that it is fresh.

But I miss greens - savoy cabbage, spring greens, brussel tops, sprouts - all sorts of green vegetables - white and red cabbage are fine for eating raw but not so good when cooked [red cabbage and apple is OK but not something I would rave over]. Mangold leaves [chard] are about the only "proper" greens I can get, and then not all the time.

I did try frozen sprouts but they were vile, and once only I saw fresh sprouts but they cost something like £2 for a pack of about 10 tiny sprouts, and much as I craved them there was no way I would spend that on them!

Pereg has diced and steamed carrots, courgettes, pumpkin, butternut squash [if my neighbour can get me some as they do not sell it across the road], sweet potato, and kohlrabi, although she prefers kohlrabi raw, as I eat it. I also sometimes give her frozen peas or some frozen mixed vegetables, those I just defrost for her.

Vegetables bulk out her meals and fill her tummy, and she is definitely slowly but surely losing weight. Do the vegetables just come out the other end? Since I changed her to raw she produces far less from that end than she did when she was on kibble.

Malka it's what I am always saying it's more to do with how well the individual dog's ability is to digest what it is eating and as we keep reading the variations on that is so ranging that one can't speak the same theories for all dogs.

Veg. is a valuable filler especially for dogs that don't get any fiber from other sources eg. bone skin and cereal etc.
How much nutrition each dog can actually metabolise is debatable.
This depends a great deal on each dogs "internal" hormonal and enzyme production.
I know we give it great importance but the live enzymes in foods we talk about a lot only play a small supporting role.
Even giving supplements won't help a great deal if the necessary enzymes needed for assimilation are not present.

Kibble excrement is more bulky depending of the amount of cereal that it contains.
Grain free kibbles which contains fruit and veg for bulk produce smaller stools.( these are what I give Ruby for some meals )

I feed cooked sweet potato with the skin left on and add a few steamed frozen beans as they need little cooking and I believe both are easy to digest.
I add them to meat when there isn't much bone or skin with the meat.
The only fruits I give are berries pick in summer when fresh or frozen summer berries from the supermarket when they are out of season.
Of course to someone else I could be doing it all wrong but it works for Ruby

Out of curiosity do you have access to wild garlic as I see you like to use garlic.
It grows in abundance here in the woodlands.
When it's in season I pick it and chop the leafy plant then add it uncooked to a variety of dishes.
It has a very nice mild garlic flavour.

I have no idea whether wild garlic grows here or not, and if it does, where it could be found. Probably not accessible to me though!

I am fairly sure that Pereg's current diet suits her very well - I kept tweaking it when I decided to change her to raw, as one of the side effects of her medication is unreasonable hunger - hence the weight gain.

She has a bone meal every other day now instead of once every three days - either chicken wings, chicken carcasses, the chicken backs [complete with "the parson's nose" and neck] that I managed to get last week, or turkey necks, the alternate days she has either egg and bio yoghurt, or ½% soft cheese and bio yoghurt. The second meal each day is meat of one sort or another, and vegetables. Lots of vegetables!

And yes, she has quite an array of supplements.

She looks good, her coat gleams and her teeth are very clean - and it is very difficult at times to remember that there is anything wrong with her, as she certainly looks the picture of health. And much better now that she has lost some weight because she really was beginning to look podgy. She has her waist back and has lost the belly she had developed. My Vet would like to see her get back to the 17kg she was when she started on medication - she went up to 20.8kg in just over 5 months but will be happy if I can get her down to 18kg.

Since the change to her current diet and regime she had lost 800g at her last weigh-in and I can see [and feel] that she has probably lost maybe another 500g since then.

As long as Pereg is happy and well, and I can get her weight down and keep it steady, then I will carry on with what I give her - because for her it seems to be ideal - for another dog it might very well be absolutely useless.

As is said, there is really no such thing as "one size fits all"!

Well done.
You deserve to be getting the good results for all the effort you are putting in.

Lot of people seem to miss the idea of bacterial contamination of the dog itself and the environment with the risks that gives.
When my dogs eat they tend to get liberally covered around mouths and at times their front legs. Since I am careful to use fresh frozen game it limits bacterial contamination but pet mince is heavily contaminated and so the dogs are. Human steak etc is not really comparable to pet food.

Pereg must be fastidious then as she does not get her mouth and front legs covered when she eats. Neither do I, for that matter.

Pet mince? No idea whether that is "heavily contaminate" or not, or if so, with what.

Pereg eats the same meat and fish as I do, the only difference being that she has hers raw, I have mine cooked.

Malks because it is contaminated with some pretty nasty bacteria.
This is a quote from the link below; I think you would agree a reputable source.
"There is currently inadequate information regarding the safety of raw diets in terms of both animal and human disease. However, considering the variety of infectious and potentially zoonotic pathogens identified here and in other studies, the potential risks must be taken seriously. Given these safety concerns, the absence of any scientific data indicating beneficial health effects of raw diets, and nutritional deficiencies that have been reported with such diets, it is difficult to recommend their use at this point."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1140397/

oh whatever ... raw frozen pre eating is absolutely fine,dogs are designed to eat 'nastys'... for your own health tho wash areas where dog has eaten...and wash your hands...sorted!! ....if u dont like it dont feed it to YOUR dog/s

sandymere

1 - The report to which you linked is a Canadian report.

2 - It refers to "Twenty-five commercial raw diets for dogs and cats".

3 - My dog has exactly the same meat that I do, the only difference being that she has hers raw, I have mine cooked. Normal poultry/meat from a normal poulterer/butcher. Human quality.

4 - It is obvious to both me and to my Vet how she is thriving on a raw diet.

5 - Since changing her from regular kibble to a raw diet her seizure pattern has changed for the good and she is now on Day 57.

So tell me again why I am giving my dog dangerously contaminated food? Because if I am then I am also eating dangerously contaminated food.