Oh yes indeedy Helena..........was a Secretary for many years inbetween Animal Nursing and Boarding Kennelling!!! So that's you, 1cutedog and me...........I bet Cardaph is the same!!! Good grief, I remember those awful days of carbon paper and tippex..........so much easier now to just backspace and add or remove a word or letter

It's interesting isn't it, one can potter along thinking that everything is tickety boo and then a thought strikes - such as has happened with you regarding your new dog Helena. The difference is though that your dog is growing up in a stable and steady home with established routines, so no need, hopefully, for worry in the future. Who knows though Dogs are such weird creatures at times Yes, Jimmi is a slightly different case when compared to Lana and Bessie because he is already an old dog and who knows whether he has EVER been left alone before. Certainly he was not alone in the rescue kennels, and if my hunch is right then he would not have been alone in his previous life. How then can we hope to instantly achieve a result with this problem, or even ever solve it. He has come on so well in so many ways, and perhaps for the moment we should just be content with that.

1cutedog, whilst I totally agree with routine wherever possible, and having always tried to stick to the same timings for all the important events in a dog's life each day, I don't think that we should totally structure our lives around our dogs. If you want to stay up late some nights, then you should, and perhaps Lana will eventually learn to put herself to bed and ignore the vaguaries of her mistresses life!! I am so pleased that she is back on your bed, and enjoying cuddles and love........surely this cannot be wrong? To my mind a content dog is going to be far more amenable to changes etc. than one that is not sure of his/her place in the home.

Cardaph, we use a Flexi lead which has webbing instead of a cord; it's so much safer and is very easy to use once you get the hang of it. I don't blame you for waiting a while before leaving Bessie alone, after all you know her best. I really hope that all your hard work pays off.

Helena re those horses..........er, nope I never had a thoroughbred cos I was a bit of a wimp There were always two ponies/horses out there in the paddock though and if I rode out without my daughter then the one left behind created blue murder. Honestly, I could hear him two miles away!

Who pinched my pint glass???

Okay, no problem - have found one of those wine glasses that hold a whole bottle

Oh yes, of course it is Sorry Cardaph I tried to go back to find it but what with all the long posts I had no chance! It's more difficult for you being on your own with Lana, but at least you now have some help with the dogsitter, and as you said before, Lana must really enjoy being there having a playmate I'm sure she'll get to love going there, just as much as you enjoy your little outings.

Hi Cardaph, sorry to hear about that lead, and if you can find yourself a good saddlers or horse suppliers, try and get hold of a lunge line, they're cheap, and won't burn your fingers, coz of course, used on horses whilst whizzing around in a circle, they're not only strong, and long, but a lot softer on the hands! You just have to keep the whole lot in a big loop in one hand, and the other part clipped to Bessie, where you have control, and if she needs more, you just move it from the big loop to your other hand!

Lol at you Bitkin, you've found yourself a bucket then????!!!!

Oh yes, I remember those awful tippex days too, and that carbon paper, blimey, I even remember when the milkman had a horse! Lol! My hubby disputes that of course, but I know he did coz I used to go running out there with my carrot when I was knee high to a grasshopper!

I'm in total agreement with you there about not structuring our lives around our dogs, that's the reason why I have such a routine going, they know I have to have a certain amount of that me time to get stuff done, and I honestly can't believe my luck with the youngster, that she has finally accepted that when I come home with the shopping and get the ball plonked at my feet to play (yes, I'm her favourite playmate dontchaknow!!! ) I only have to say, no, I've got to unload all this lot first, then I'll take you out, and off she slopes into the garden to amuse herself, just because she KNOWS she will be getting another walk when I've finished, and to me, that's what it's all about, all because of that routine. If we can't go out, then she gets me for 20 minutes in the garden and that's her lot before lunch! She doesn't normally get an evening walk, one because I like to be in my jim jams by 5pm and also because it's been so darn hot (oh, and I have to do hubby's dinner of course, I forgot that bit lol!) but tonight she got a special treat, purely because she was so, so good today letting me get on with some housework most of the morning without pestering the life out of me, so I took her out again this evening, we met up with a friend with a little terrier (her age), and they both played ball together and sat and chatted, I showed off some of her training to my friend, and we were up there more than an hour that was just thanking her for being such a good girl today and she won't expect it tomorrow, but she might get it if she doesn't, that's how it works with me!

Now you won't be able to type coz you'll need both hands to lift that bucket!!!!

We were typing at the same time Helena! I have a laptop, and thank goodness husband has no interest whatsoever in computers, because half the letters have been rubbed off so he would be in trouble!

Our last dog used to like being in bed by 9 too, and so we would oblige her, which was fine until we wanted to go into the kitchen for something, and then she was very grumpy about being disturbed. The dog before that was more of a problem because he slept in the bed with us (yes, IN the bed ), so he would become more and more pushy and insistent as the evening wore on, standing in front of me and beckoning with his head.........it was impossible to concentrate on a film or whatever with that going on!!

Did it again..........typing at the same type that is, and look I am typing despite the bucket. (Straws are brilliant inventions!)

I too remember horses and carts, but it was the rag and bone man with me.....same carrot tho. (I also like to put my gown on after a bath at around 5.......but we must stop this before our posts are deleted for being off topic )

I am beginning to think that between us on this thread we could write a book about the various aspects of SA, and success or otherwise with dealing with it.

Have been thinking again.

We are always being told that we should disregard whatever has gone before, or perceived to have gone before, in a dog's life - especially in the case of rescue dogs. We are told that it is not relevant, and that dogs live for today etc. etc. I simply cannot agree with this.

If this is true, then why can dogs be conditioned to react to stimuli........this is response to something learned in the past; so why is it not also true that if something bad has happened to them in the past they will react if that memory is triggered? They DO have a memory, otherwise it would be impossible to teach them anything at all, and if good things can be stored then surely bad things are also stored in the same way. Our last dog but one was a rescue dog, and for years he associated darkness with some terror unknown to us, but equally, even though we only went once a year, he KNEW that when we turned off the motorway at Penrith it was only about half an hour to Braithwaite in the Lakes and doggy bliss. He would wake up and become thoroughly pleased with life.

When behaviouralists (and I am not knocking them, because as I said before they do a great deal of good in many respects) tell us to ignore what went before I find this rather dismissive of something which is clearly hugely important in many cases. It is not the case with Jimmi I belive, but say Lana had been beaten for some reason in the past and 1cutedog inadvertently used an action which brought this memory back (as with the throw stick incident), how are we supposed to just ignore it?

Sorry, I am rambling a bit now but my point is that behaviouralists do not have all the answers, and some dogs need a little more understanding than just the standard "distance yourself" routine.

*fills up bucket again

Quite right Helena! I started off as a shorthand typist on a manual typewriter and thought I was the bees knees when my then boss got me an electric typewriter! All antiquities now.
I hope you are wrong about your youngest and the possibility of him getting SA and hopefully it's a long way off.
I had a look on Ebay at the lunge lines and they look the same as the doggy long lines in fabric webbing as opposed to the cord one I stupidly bought. I think we'll try her on her flexi lead for a bit next time like Bitkin suggested just to reinforce the idea she has to come back when called.

1cutedog haven't actually tried the hallway yet but it may be the only solution will report on how it goes.

Bitkin I agree they can remember bad things which happened to them. Our first dog had to go into boarding kennels one time and not having a car back then the kennels transported her for us. They said on the way back home at a certain point she started to take a great deal of interest in the surroundings and perked up because she knew she was going home. Do you go to the lakes much? We go every October with the family and this year are off to Grasmere, really looking forward to it and of course Bessie comes too.

I have serious doubts about this training working. Ok so we give her more mental stimulation, we get her used to not being with us in the house as much by closing doors.
She still knows we are in the house though so how can I believe that after doing all this for a while she will miraculously just accept being left in the house on her own? I can't seet it being as easy as that somehow.
But I have to see it through now so can only hope

Yep milkman with horse and rag and bone man, manual typewriters and telex machines

Dogs do have memories of some sort, okay they may live for today but it doesn't make them forget people or actions. Lana was taken from the police dog pound to the rescue kennels on a pole which they use for aggressive dogs so maybe just the angle of the ball throwing stick above her head reminded her of the pole which is why she cowered so much. She also doesn't like men in dark clothes or caps which probably comes from the police or dog wardens when she was dumped in kennels away from her family and scared.

When Lana was at the dog sitters the first time, on the way back when she got near the house she started whining and getting excited so she knew she was coming back. She also remembers every little place where she sees a cat and searches for them if she passes that way again.

Cardaph I can understand your doubts about being able to leave Bessie in the house on her own, as you say if she's in another room she knows you are still in the house and especially after reading about Jimmi and Lana who have no problem being in a room on their own just don't like when we go out the house and leave them completely alone. The most you can do is try everything the behavourist recommends and see if it works as it's been tailor made for Bessie. This could make all the difference and it may well work with Bessie so don't be too despondent just because nothing works with our two. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Hi Bitkin (I'm surprised you CAN think after what you've put away out of that magic bottle by now!!!! ). Yes, I am in total agreement about the dog's remembering the bad things in it's past life, same as the good things isn't it, how on earth do they respond to things as they do if they cannot do either then???

A short while after I got Georgie (the rescue) and I had been nothing but quiet and calm around him, never raising my voice, and not getting in his face, I sort of left it to him to settle in with us coz of his background. Anyway, one night I let them out for their last wee as I always had, and when they came back in, they always got a carrot each shoved in their mouth as they came in the back door. One night, I stood there waiting, armed with my carrots and I had it in my mind, that Georgie would get the bigger one (coz he was a bigger dog!) and as I gave him the carrot, I then realised, I'd given him the small one, so I immediately said "no, wait" as I quickly took it out of his mouth to give him the other one, and that poor dog, well, his ears went back, he shut his eyes tight, and cowered his head, as if I was going to hit him OMG, I thought, what has somebody done to this poor dog, so I immediately bent down and gave him a big cuddle and a fuss and I cried!!!! I felt so desperately sorry for him SO, he had obviously remembered something hadn't he, because there was no way in this world that I had ever mistreated him, and he'd only been here about a month! I hope Jimmi has been a good boy again today, and is learning the ropes still! Good luck

Lol, you talking about how pushy your previous dog was at bedtime, I had the exact same thing last night at 9pm even though they had their nightcap and were sprawled out on the decking with the french doors open, they both wouldn't have it that mummy was STILL sitting in her recliner watching tv with dad, coz she should have gone upstairs, so in and out they came, pestering the life out of me, and hubby pipes up with "tcht, you see, when I'm here on my own after 9pm they just lie out there " So of course, I had to go upstairs to bed like a good girl didn't I!!!!!! NO, my dogs don't rule ME - honest!!!!

Hi Cardaph, (I'm glad you're one of us, so I'm right again then! lol!)be careful with that extendable if she's a bit hyper on the end of it, I've had those things ripped out of my hands or nearly broke Georgie's neck when he flew off to greet another dog, but you're probably used to those, and if not, watch out with them!

Try and carry on with that closing of the door thing, because in all honestly, your behaviourist does have a point there. I often do it here with mine, but that's only because of delivery men or some other visitor I don't want them molesting, and it's surprising, the youngster is as good as gold, accepts that she's shut in a room, you don't hear a peep out of her, and yet the rescue boy Georgie, he doesn't stop whingeing and whining or sitting right up against the other side of the door scratching on it! I suppose, it's all to do with telling them that they're NOT going to be where they want all of the time, following you around, being somewhere they can see you, so I can really understand where he's/she's coming from with that one, so try and keep it up if it's not causing any unnecessary stress, which it probably is, but I know you won't be doing it for too long each time. What have you been told to do once you have opened that door again then? Make a fuss or ignore Bessie?? I'd be interested to know because I just ignore my dogs after I've shut them in, it's kind of a "I'm doing what I want to do, not what YOU want me to do" statement to them (although as you will see above to Bitkin, that isn't always the case, especially at bedtime!!!), and I usually just casually say to Zena as I let them out of the room, that I was more than capable of coping with that situation I didn't need her to be there to protect me, and I'm sure she understands! lol! It's all a part of distancing yourselves from her you see, and I suppose, also instilling the fact that it IS your house, you are entitled to do as you wish even though they don't see it like that!!!

Well, I hope all is going well, it's too early for me with that magic bottle, but I might pop back in later when the bar opens!

Hi 1cutedogglad we agree there, and about that milkman lol!