Thank you Gnasher! I've learned a lot from you too. It is indeed what Dogsey is all about!

I have done exactly this with my puppies (the only two that I have had as puppies). With mine, the circumstances were a little unusual: Berkeley had been taken from his mother far too young and raised on a diet of extremely sugary Weetabix and cow's milk, which I absolutely did not want him to continue... so I had to make him puppy food parmesan and encourage him at every step. Laszlo ate so slowly and so pickily that I ended up hand-feeding him until he was about four or five months old. But for both of them, I really wanted them to understand that me interfering with their food always means good things, so yes, while they're eating I'll occasionally pop a little bit of cheese or sausage or something else in there. I want them to be completely comfortable with me being around them while they're eating. I don't know, but I think the 'gesture eating' thing might reinforce this: if you show that you've had what you want and you're done, you're also showing that you have no further interest in the food. There is no reason to guard it, since no one is going to take it.

That said, there are going to be times when you do have to take food away, such as when a GIANT HORNET IS IN THE BOWL (yup, that's happened) or when you have to pull a cooked bone out from their mouths (innumerable times; I could just about strangle whoever it is who leaves lamb carcasses out by the pathway). As always, trust is key. Put on your sternest Mom voice so the dog knows it's all business here, use the 'leave it' command, and if they don't, just take it. No eye contact, no challenge, just 'leave it' and take the offending thing away.

That advice is going to be controversial, and it is kind of dangerous with a food guarder, but I have done it many, many times. Only one of my four (Taji, the Akita) is inclined to guard food, and that's something he came to us already having as an issue with, but even with him I can take stuff away with a serious, no-nonsense demeanour and full on Mom mode, if you know what I mean.

The thing is to foster trust. If your dog trusts you, you can get away with all kinds of things, like grabbing dangerous things straight out of their mouths, holding the fish line with the hook in it that they've just eaten all the way to the emergency vet (luckily, the hook had caught on the Halti; no harm done, but I want to kick whoever left a whole fish head with a hook in it by the side of the canal straight into the water and chase them back in every time they try to get out for about six days), or yes, even taking the food bowl away (GIANT HORNET). With luck, you won't ever have to do any of these things, but it's pretty likely that something will come up. With trust, the right attitude, and a confident Mom mode, you can handle it.

And after the danger has passed, heap on the praise! Cuddles, treats, everything. We all have to go through bad days, and there's a very good reason why doctors keep lollipops.

Thank you ... any time. xx

I agree with you, Strangechilde. Nigredo has stolen cooked bones and other forbidden fruit time and time again. Jade a few times, but he usually gets to them first. He's not allowed in the kitchen and never goes there, but with the help of a clever (and tall, and greedy, and fat) kitty cat, she reaches up or digs around, steals all kinds of food, takes it to the living room, eats what she wants from it, and leaves the rest for stealies.

When we come from my room, the first thing Nigredo does is head for the living room to see what great gift his fat friend has left him. He often comes rushing back with something he totally should not have. He had a soy hot dog once (mom is a vegan, but couldn't stomach the disgusting things). He's viciously allergic to soy! I also buy them roasted bones, and if Jade doesn't take hers to her crate, he will stealies and I have to get it back.

He doesn't snarl or anything over the food, but he can be reluctant to fork it over. He's a Labby guy and ultra greedy. A few times he's swallowed the item whole His leave it falters more than I'd like, though it has gotten better. He jets with the stolen item. A firm "Nigredo...." usually stops him and a hand held out, palm up, along with a stern "Hand it over..." will get him to drop the item and reluctantly let me take it.

Gnasher ,
Just to clarify about DNa incase there is any confusion.
The mitochondrial DNA is 99.8 % the same between wolves and dogs .
Nuclear DNA is about 98% the same between wo0lves and dogs.

Nuclear DNA is housed in the nucleus of the cell while MtDNA
structures are outside the nucleus but within the cell.

Science. Here comes my headache. Biological science at that. Two giant headache pain pills, stat.

What if they run off or dont let go ?

The one thing you have to do first is teach a reliable Leave and/or Drop it. Kikopup has a video.

Taking something out of a dogs mouth (if thats what you mean) isn't kind of dangerous, it is dangerous more so when it isnt your dog.
Glad it work with you and no harm done but its an action you have to be vary careful about if you are an inexperienced owner or with different breeds and temperaments

Yes , if your dog trusts you , you can do things like that but it depends on how you foster trust.

When someone first has a puppy or new dog, they have to earn trust and respect. While he is learning and adapting to his new surroundings , it is very easy to intimidate him. One minute, they are being nice and the next nasty( what the pups find unpleasant,) without warning , it makes the owner unpredictable to the pup and can make him uncertain of his carer . Pups need certainty to feel safe , its hard to relax or feel safe with someone who you never know what they are going to do or how they are going to act, this is true for us humans too .
I'm not saying never raise your voice or sound firmer or sterner, I do this once I'm sure my dogs knows what I want.


Well yes thats a good idea, but if its that urgent , offer the treats or throw them on the floor so the dog drops what he has or throw treats away from the dish so he's far enough away so you can grab the dish .

Pip isa scavenger , he has a good drop or leave it but on walks if he is that far away from me and finds a bone , sterness doesnt always do it . Sometimes with dogs, eating the bone is so rewarding that in that moment , they risk "punishment". Like us Brits binge drinking when you know you will havea hang over the next day .

I always have tissues or kitchen roll on me so i get out one ( I tend to wrap up the chicken or sausage bits in them ) I wave it around and say really loud and excited to all the dogs OOh Looky here , Chicken ! and he either drops the bone where he is and runs back or he runs back with it to me and then drops or gives it to me it .

I dont have any problems about dogs "flouting my authority " or using bribery . I just care about what works in the kindest way and often quick way too.

That's why i've been so quiet , spend all my time trying to understand what seems to be gobbledegook !

It should be pointed out that Mitochondrial DNA is only passed down through the mother whilst nucleus DNA is passed down by both father and mother.

Yes , absolutely. I think Gnasher did mention that way back in the thread.

Sperm isnt big enough to carry MtDNA so I guess in some instances size does matter.

There's also Mt RNA but lets not go there ! I haven't read that far. I learnt this for O level Biology but I've forgotten most of it.

Dibbythedog:
"Yes , if your dog trusts you , you can do things like that but it depends on how you foster trust.

When someone first has a puppy or new dog, they have to earn trust and respect. While he is learning and adapting to his new surroundings , it is very easy to intimidate him. One minute, they are being nice and the next nasty( what the pups find unpleasant,) without warning , it makes the owner unpredictable to the pup and can make him uncertain of his carer . Pups need certainty to feel safe , its hard to relax or feel safe with someone who you never know what they are going to do or how they are going to act, this is true for us humans too . "

Myrsky has already a good leave it, it works outside with almost anything (pinecones,tissues,rubbish) but mostly before I see he's going to take it, once he got it is a little harder, but he does. And Dibby its exactly how it is, sometimes our puppy is soo nice, 5 minutes later he starts to bark at us steel shoes, does not obey and snaps at us. We don't know why..how can we make him trust us, by playing, cuddling and obey training methods?
Yesterday it was really hard with Myrsky, we had to put him twice on the balcony as a time out,because he didn't calm down and kind of "attacked" my boyfriend like jumping and biting pants and pullover.And to stop Myrsky he makes him sit, but he just continued and was "arguing" with us.
And another thing, does anyone has a suggestion what we can do to stop our puppy from grabbing/chewing clothes from the dry rack? we just say stern "no" or leave it and lead him to his toys to take but he wont stop