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Noushka05
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19-09-2012, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Helen View Post
Still can't see it. Is there something specific you are wanting me to watch?

Helen
ive edited my post Helen you should be able to see it now
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Helen
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19-09-2012, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
If you read the article that I linked to, a Carbofuran-poisoned fox was found. I am not saying it happens regularly - but it does happen.
I just rad the first bit about the eagle being poisoned and tbh, glanced through it and never saw fox being mentioned. H doesnt sound like your run of the mill keeper after being convicted of possession of illegal handguns

Seriously, there is good and bad in all walks of life and he is most definitely a bad 'un!

Helen
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Noushka05
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19-09-2012, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
Both of the links provided are nothing to do with foxes, they relate to poisoning raptors, something again, I do not agree with.

However, I will also provide the counter argument, that there is no control of numbers for some breeds of raptors, buzzards and sparrowhawks are two species which have made a very successful come back, and are now in such high numbers in *some* areas, that they are a nuisance. Anyone who loves garden birds knows what a bl**dy nuisance sparrowhawks can be, and as much as I love seeing buzzards, numbers are unsustainably high in some areas. Unfortunately, although it's perfectly legal to apply for a licence to control some species of birds of prey, not one licence has been granted over a number of years. So despite the threat to other bird species, and the detrimental effect they can have on businesses, there is no method of control for anyone in areas where they have a negative effect.

As much as I do not agree with people resorting to *other* methods of control, I do not agree with the moritorium on control methods for successul raptor species, where they are having a negative impact on their immediate surroundings.
its not native predators that are to blame for other species declining, predators numbers are regulated by the abundance of prey and territories, if prey species decline they decline ...but as usual some like to make scape goats of them...often people with their own interests at heart , it was pigeon fanciers who set up the organisation 'Save our songbirds'!!....to try to turn people against our sparrow hawks...how disgraceful!!
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Tarimoor
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19-09-2012, 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by NOUSHKA05 View Post
its not native predators that are to blame for other species declining, predators numbers are regulated by the abundance of prey and territories, if prey species decline they decline ...but as usual some like to make scape goats of them...often people with their own interests at heart , it was pigeon fanciers who set up the organisation 'Save our songbirds'!!....to try to turn people against our sparrow hawks...how disgraceful!!
I take it then that you don't want to see our common garden and song birds thrive? I mean, in the interests of just letting species get on with it.
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Noushka05
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19-09-2012, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Helen View Post
I just rad the first bit about the eagle being poisoned and tbh, glanced through it and never saw fox being mentioned. H doesnt sound like your run of the mill keeper after being convicted of possession of illegal handguns

Seriously, there is good and bad in all walks of life and he is most definitely a bad 'un!

Helen
if you google raptor persecutions you'll find killing birds of prey is very common...particulary around grouse moors.
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19-09-2012, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by NOUSHKA05 View Post
ive edited my post Helen you should be able to see it now
I can see it now!

That is unjustifiable really and I am not defending it. I have never said that all game industry methods are perfect. That's like saying all dog breeding is humane.That set up is like the battery cage system.

On the other hand, which is much better, isiwhen they are bred in large extensive pens with cover, which is the way I would do it.

I do dislike the term "fattening pens" on that page, they are release pens, to get the pheasants used to the area and to preven predation. etc.

What area of life is perfect? I am not here to defend every practice in the shooting industry. I am mot that niaive!

To say that the GWCT supports animal cruelty is way off the mark IMO, and think it degrades the work they do!

Helen
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Moobli
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19-09-2012, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
Both of the links provided are nothing to do with foxes, they relate to poisoning raptors, something again, I do not agree with.

However, I will also provide the counter argument, that there is no control of numbers for some breeds of raptors, buzzards and sparrowhawks are two species which have made a very successful come back, and are now in such high numbers in *some* areas, that they are a nuisance. Anyone who loves garden birds knows what a bl**dy nuisance sparrowhawks can be, and as much as I love seeing buzzards, numbers are unsustainably high in some areas. Unfortunately, although it's perfectly legal to apply for a licence to control some species of birds of prey, not one licence has been granted over a number of years. So despite the threat to other bird species, and the detrimental effect they can have on businesses, there is no method of control for anyone in areas where they have a negative effect.

As much as I do not agree with people resorting to *other* methods of control, I do not agree with the moritorium on control methods for successul raptor species, where they are having a negative impact on their immediate surroundings.
If you had read the article I linked to ....

In addition to the poisoned golden eagle, a Carbofuran-poisoned fox was found and also a dead sheep laced with Carbofuran. Someone was clearly still putting out poisoned baits
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19-09-2012, 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
If you had read the article I linked to ....

In addition to the poisoned golden eagle, a Carbofuran-poisoned fox was found and also a dead sheep laced with Carbofuran. Someone was clearly still putting out poisoned baits
Which species were they out to poison? Not that I agree with either, but in what way do you want me to comment, other than it's not something any game keeper I know does, and it's not something I agree with. It happens, people kill, rape and mutilate other people, they own pets and destroy their lives through poor ownership, all of these things happen, none of them are things I agree with, but none of them are the norm, and to try and present poisoning as the normal way of controlling some pest species is simply misleading.
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Moobli
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19-09-2012, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
Which species were they out to poison? Not that I agree with either, but in what way do you want me to comment, other than it's not something any game keeper I know does, and it's not something I agree with. It happens, people kill, rape and mutilate other people, they own pets and destroy their lives through poor ownership, all of these things happen, none of them are things I agree with, but none of them are the norm, and to try and present poisoning as the normal way of controlling some pest species is simply misleading.
I am just showing that it does happen.

You said ...
"Both of the links provided are nothing to do with foxes, they relate to poisoning raptors, something again, I do not agree with. "

So I felt I had to come back as the fox in that case was poisoned.

I also said "I am not saying it happens regularly - but it does happen."
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Tarimoor
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19-09-2012, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
I am just showing that it does happen.

You said ...
"Both of the links provided are nothing to do with foxes, they relate to poisoning raptors, something again, I do not agree with. "

So I felt I had to come back as the fox in that case was poisoned.

I also said "I am not saying it happens regularly - but it does happen."
Yes, but which species was targetted, do you know it was a fox that was targetted, and the raptor species was an incidental occurrence of the fox being targetted, or was bait put out with the hope of poisoning raptors, and a fox got in the way?

Unless you can say either way what purpose the bait was left out for, you can't really say it was there for foxes, or for raptors, it was simply there.
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