If we're lucky we probably have on average something like ten years to live with our dogs. Surely in that time we can find a way to treat our dogs with kindness and love and not need to use tools that hurt them.

Well said, I agree

Totally agree.

Helen

The girl who owned the mastiff must have loved her dog so much to go in the water with the snakes. I'm not sure I could have done that for the sake of my dog.

I don't think any of us can understand quite what went on for those two people while they were working with the war dogs. It would have been a very intense experience psychologically.

I agree. The TV programme can only show a tiny snippet of what went on, and you can bet that there was much going on behind the scenes as well.

I am not saying the dogs were fearful (except possibly poor Heidi taking that huge "fall" - into what appeared to have been a less than comfy harness (but will stand corrected if the harness is suitable for that exercise) but the prong collar is there to be used, it's not for decoration ... this is how military dogs are trained, probably in the same way it's always been done historically (just as the police still use the old Home Office Manual for their methods, as I understand it - again, glad to be corrected if I am wrong).

Pet dogs can be different in their response. For example dogs have reacted badly due to prong collar use. A lot "depends" I would probably agree that prongs are better than chokers esp. for the sort of work done, but do not agree or think they are comfortable, the dog will be habituated.

You can tell a lot by dog body language whoever the dog is and however they are bred

But also people disagree a lot on that sort of thing anyway so we will all speak from our own experiences, knowledge etc etc..


Wys
x

It was nice of Mike to reply to some of the things in this thread. He makes some fair points, but there's two I'd just quickly like to respond to.

When people appear in a television program, they are judged on how they come across (or are edited to come across) and, the owners of the dogs in that episode were certainly portrayed as irresponsible dog owners - exactly the type of dog owner that many of us here are dismayed by - the sort that do not learn enough about dogs *before* getting one. I guess if they didn't fit that criteria, there wouldn't be much of a show (and in all fairness I think if you were to ask them now, they'd probably agree).

In a perfect world we wouldn't need to ban anything, but society has shown us it's not quite there yet. Therefore, certain things *need* protection, such as animals and their welfare. Hence anything that inflicts pain on an animal, whether under the guise of 'training' or not, has no place in a civilised society and is worthy of condemnation and legislative action. Experts have shown time and time again that high levels of training can be achieved by using positive methods alone, hence why I personally support the ban of any training device that works by causing pain or extreme distress, and look forward to seeing the rest of the UK follow Wales in banning of electric shock collars, and/or any other device that inflicts pain on a dog.

Christine Zink at her recent seminar said from a veterinary point of view she thought prong/pinch collars were better for dogs than head halters, check chains or half checks.

Interesting article by Suzanne Clothier here.

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/53/97/

In my best possible world, NO collars and leads would be used in training. The strongest leash of all is that invisible leash that connects one heart to another, and it's built of love & trust. The sad reality is that the heart's invisible leash is often broken or has never been built. The prong collar is one of many training equipment choices that can help dogs & owners as they work to build the most important training tool of all - a relationship. It is NOT my first choice, and I prefer a buckle or martingale (limited slip) collar. However, the reality is that some people will need to use a prong collar as a way to begin to work with their dogs so that a buckle collar and a loose lead are possible - they should know how & why this collar may be a reasonable choice for some dogs.

Sorry, not interesting at all
A really old article basically saying for some dogs leash correction is not enough and they get fast results with the prong

And yes, from a vets point of view a device that causes enough pain that a dog learns quickly is better than them constantly choking themselves on a choke chain, or flopping their heads round on a badly used head collar
But is it better than simply making walking beside you rewarding and teaching the behavior you want when they get to the end of the lead?

SB do you use/recommend prong collars?

Stupid question here but how does a prong collar work .??
Never seen one in the flesh or on a dog ...
Does each link have a 2 spikes ?