PRAGER HANS - I have not posted on this thread until today, and am genuinely and politely asking you what you mean when you use the term 'correction'?

I will answer later. I do not feel like doing it right now for above described reasons. At this point I will only say, that there are many books written on this topic. No, they are not obsolete and some are quite modern. They are based on love of dogs and scientific facts and backed by results.
Prager Hans

There is a difference between being too amenable and attacking and ridiculing every word which I (the newcomer here) have said in my original post here. That post was quite innocent and I stumbled over it after someone alerted me to this forum and I was saying that Alpha roll is a natural and valid methods of establishing leadership position. Later I have said that it is difficult to apply an aplha roll properly and that I do not generally recommend it . Immediately after that I was ridiculed I was subject to ad hominem attacks from get go and everything I have said was in unsubstantiated way ridiculed and belittled. Post was placed here on someone actually killing a pup and I was compared indirectly to such person. Elsewhere on different topic, I was repeatedly attacked because I misspelled a word Horse as Hose. My grasp of English was in question. Entire thread was thrown off by discussion of my understanding of word Export and Import and where I reside even so I have said that I reside in Arizona USA. People started to dig dirt on me on Internet, and then they misrepresented here the "dirt" which really was no dirt at all, but some here made sure that they mentioned here that there is a lot of dirt on me there in the cyberspace.
Every word of importance which I have said here, like leadership, dominance, alpha roll, pack leader was not discussed on its merit and based on even basic, common knowledge of science and basic facts of it, but it was ridiculed, arbitrarily dismissed and fun was made of legitimate opinions and called arbitrarily obsolete and not modern enough and so on.
I know that it looks like that I am whining here, however I am not, I am just putting here reasons why I was "not so friendly" myself. I am a big boy and usually do not worry about any of this and can hold my own in any fair discussion. But so far the environment here has not been so fair not friendly.
As far as the way i express myself is usually in respectful , but direct way. I do not mince words and say what is on my mind and none needs to guess what I am saying.

As far as "unsolicited PM" goes I am sorry about that but i have mistaken you for a person who would like to know more about the topic and I have offered help. Also i did not know that PM must be solicited(?).
Prager Hans

I understand that it can seem like an individual is being pounced on
that happens alot on forums

I am just trying to understand anothers point of view and I am sorry if it came across otherwise

(I am also dyslexic and the spell check gives some crazy words sometimes that I dont see)

Simply put when someone comes on here talking about alpha roles, corrections and leadership that just rings warning bells to so many of us
especially if the person seems to have joined just to join in these debates

you seem to have a good grasp behind the science of training and come across as intelligent so I am interested in the methods and the reasons you use them
Dosent mean I will agree with them but I am interested to hear them

especially
the alpha roll as taught as a trick - roll over as alot of us teach - do you believe if you lure a dog to perform that trick then they will see you are leader more so than any other trick you can teach? and what evidence do you have for that? for example a dog with a good load of tricks they know how to do but their behaviour suddenly improves with the addition of the roll over trick?

HOW you teach the word 'no' and what you expect it to mean to the dog

what you mean by a correction, and what do you believe it will achieve correcting an aggressive dog

especially
the alpha roll as taught as a trick - roll over as alot of us teach - do you believe if you lure a dog to perform that trick then they will see you are leader more so than any other trick you can teach? and what evidence do you have for that? for example a dog with a good load of tricks they know how to do but their behaviour suddenly improves with the addition of the roll over trick?

As always Ben I like to give an opinion which is only that! I said before that in play when a dog is lying on their back it is not necessarily submissive but when the tail curls on to the belly in play that IS submissive. They do it because the top dog is getting carried away. The under dog is on their back in play so that it can play bite back. I think a dog, when approaching a much weaker dog that it wants to play with, will lie on their back to demonstrate they mean no threat - therefore it is in this scenario a welcoming/submissive gesture. When someone approaches my dogs they usually roll on to their back, not to get their tummy tickled, but to demonstrate trust and that they are in no way a threat, that is submission. I think some people here think that Submission means the dog is unhappy or frightened but I think it shows that they are happy, content and happy to have you as their pack leader. Again some people think that is a dirty word but the fact that you as the handler provide food, water, shelter, safety and give them commands, they do think of you as their pack leader whether you like it or not. I do not think dogs want to take over at all except when you are not fulfilling their needs and then they may get out of hand.

PRAGER HANS:

I came to this thread with a totally open mind. However, I actually think you're quite impolite. I have asked you a civil, basic, reasonable question - you have repeatedly refused to answer.

To refuse to answer such a basic query, i.e. what do you mean by 'correction' is absurd.