That is so true, I am always telling mine when they get too boisterous as puppies we are hoomans not doggies so be gentle with us ! They get it quite quickly

If you mean Holly, you can clearly see that CM barely tapped her a few times to get her to stop biting him. I'd have kicked her far harder than that and sent her yelping to the ground TBH. Sorry, but I'm not going to stand by and get bitten by a dog.

Now NEVER would I have been bitten in that fashion as what he did was actually INSANE IMO. But he is USED to being bitten and attacked by dogs. Rarely do the dogs yelp or let out any noise when he hits them, so he is not hurting them... even though the hitting isn't needed. Hence his arrogance etc.

That being said, pack theory is truly garbage because when you see a "pack" of street dogs, they are usually in very poor health and constantly fighting amongst each other whereas wolves live in well fed harmony most of the time.

Domestics dogs are NOT usually pack creatures (some breeds are prone to DA etc. so of course) and even if they were, we are not dogs and CANNOT trick a dog into thinking that we are. Doesn't work, can't work, hasn't worked.

Daddy WAS a well balanced dog, but Junior (the dog he got to "replace" Daddy) is a prime example of a fearful, shut down dog that was unable to adapt to his methods. I suppose Daddy was much more confident by nature and responded to CM's "training" better.

JodeeUK, you really should speak for yourself. Saying that only body language is used in the dog world really is not true at all. Also, just because your dog that was "dominant" could deal with the others without conflict does not mean all dogs are like that. If that was the case, dog trainers would hardly be needed at all.

So while CM's methods are mostly bad, and I'd never tell anybody to follow his lead... all he was doing was TRYING to help the dog world. Yes he is arrogant, but then he was a T.V. star WAY before he was a dog trainer (which arguably he never was).

<Sighs>

Few dogs are truly dominant as the believers in the now totally debunked Alpha lead pack(based on artificial captive safari park/zoo wolves) theory think. A true pack is formed by a breeding pair & their offspring, not a group of unrelated strays.

Why would dog trainers not be needed because dogs rely on body language to communicate ? you have lost me there. No one is born understanding dog's body language & dog trainers should teach owners to learn to read their dogs & use natural behaviours to shape their dogs.

You will never see a dog put an e collar, pinch collar, Illusion collar on another dog, you will never see a dog hit another with a stick(or similar) in anger, you will never see a dog "smack" another to discipline( differ to a dog using a paw in play)as humans do with their hands, you will never see a dog kick or paw jab another to discipline. You anthropomorphize dogs too much as does CM.

Watch a bitch with her puppies, she never Alpha rolls them, she may take their heads in her mouth, but does so gently to restrain them never ever to punish them.

CM says dogs only live in the now, if this was 100% true then how do they learn ? They do live in the now when they do things we find unacceptable, they do not think of the consequences, they do not know exactly what we will do as a result, but they do have memories of actions that have consequences(like being hurt for messing inside)& often do things to hide the behaviour that caused the pain.

CM has the right to be arrogant because he is a "personality" does he, sorry no one has the right to be arrogant no matter how famous or infamous they may be

I would be totally unimpressed if any trainer I was looking at had been bitten numerous times. That shouldn't be happening. Why do you think CM has been bit so many times? Because he pushes, and pushes, and pushes, until he gets a reaction. Then he can just prove how "dangerous" said dog was and how much of a "miracle" he can work on the dog. It's all for TV purposes. We're meant to find that entertaining! I guess some people do...

I had an old trainer at a club I attended who was CM mad! I heard she had been bit after rolling a Boxer with a crazy football obsession. Idiot is all I can say. I wonder how that Boxer's attitude towards balls changed afterwards. Would have been interesting to find out. That was actually the club my poor boy totally shut down at. He refused all treats, was ignoring me, staring off into space. That idiot trainer tried alpha rolling him when he wouldn't obey a down stay! Needless to say, myself and another trainer, rescued my boy instantly! So glad I'm shot of that place.

Completely agree with you and very glad you got your boy out of there.

Only time mine are on their backs is when they play baby in my arms or want a tummy tickle and that's how it should be.

Agreed.

She was the same trainer that advised I alpha roll Missy on sight of other dogs too...to get her into a "relaxed state of mind"

Gosh you may have met a genuine idiot

You don't know his background - he is a rescue, and yes he does even now try it on occasionally. It doesn't get him anywhere but even after 3 years he can still be threatening, we just ignore it. but if he did actually bite me badly, I am honest enough to admit that I could instinctively lash out in anger.

Genuinely curious by what you mean when you say he "threatens" you?

Okay, here we go. "Debunked" is a relative word. It does not mean every single aspect of something isn't true. As for the comment about dog trainer... of course I lost you since that is not what I meant. What I was saying was that if dogs were never physically actually aggressive with one another, dog trainers etc. would lose LOTS of business.

You probably attribute dogs not getting along to the owners and their failures etc. but it isn't so cut and dry. Violence is part of the dog world and we as owners simply endeavor to train (domesticate) our pets so this side never shows it's face. Doesn't always work as even a well trained dog sometimes can act out of character. It's you know... part of being an animal.

I NEVER said CM has the "right" to be anything. I simply said his arrogance is expected because he's a T.V. host and IMO most of them are arrogant to some degree. Even Stilwell was arrogant. She gets a break from some people because she's a "positive" dog trainer, but still. And Alan Titchmarsh certainly seemed arrogant, as well.

As for "alpha rolling" dogs, I didn't even mention that so you can have that one. And sorry I do not agree that a pack is a bitch, the male and the puppies they gave birth to. Do not agree with that at all. If that was the case, very little aggression of course would be seen as rarely is there severe aggression among litter mates etc.

CM would not hold a puppies head in his teeth for obvious reasons. He does his version of what a dog would do. Or that is what he claims anyway. Dogs do not have hands therefore they cannot do what he does. He is not a dog therefore he cannot do what dogs do. That is the main issue in the end.

He's a failure because he cannot properly imitate what dogs do and it was absurd to even try, but he is not a failure because he is arrogant or wrong about everything. Some of the stuff he says isn't just total crap, but then that is my belief. You are allowed to have yours.