Completely impossible to understand without knowing what you mean by ethical and how you define "need".

You know what I mean Elmo.. Us two have debated this to death. Im off to walk the fur kids on the green now.

I'd point you in the direction of the Kennel Club founders who bred purely for eugenics and aesthetics not for purpose. There are many breeds classed as simply as companions and the majority of "working" dogs do not work.

The majority of breeds were already there - the classifications have changed as people have become more specific. Whether that is a good thing or not - I am not sure - you just have to look at what happened to the BC when the KC got hold of them to see it was not really in their best interests.

Someone local to us who doesn't shoot applied for a shotgun license simply so he could have his dog's tail docked...., now that is designer.

It is - it is also very sad and (if the pups are not being found working homes) against the rules as well.

The history means little or nothing without the health records and as the health tests did not exist when most of the breeds started and breeders now choose not to test as they say the breeds are established, you have no regulation sort control. So the history is without testing but once established, no testing is "needed".

The health records have now been around long enough for them to mean something. 20 odd years on and you have a fairly comprehensive idea of what is going on within a breed. I know of no responsible breeder who would state what you have. You experience with registered dogs must be as bad as mine with the designer X's methinks.

The easy way to divert the public attention from this, the real problem, is to create a spook to poor scorn on....... I have one such such spook asleep on my feet right now.

There is the working registery or whatever it's called. Cheeko has always been more than welcome at any events but he isn't KC reg.. The KC are actually going out their way to invite crosses and stuff to agility events at Crufts and the like.

I wouldn't register for library books with the KC. The KC should be going out of their way to clean up the mess they've caused by doing nothing for 100s of years instead of trying to ruin anything else.

I am sorry you feel that way....I personally feel people should be made aware of any potential issues within any breed or type and what to look for in the breeders they go to.
As I said earlier - one does not cancel out the other.

I have phoned (but not bought) many KC breeders and when I ask about test the answer is, invariably "they're KC registered". I politely ask "and that means what exactly" and they send me one of those pieces of paper with a "wedding style" font with a list of bizarre dog names on.... no health tests or anything but I know that "Five Feet Pointy Head the Third out of Africa" was the little pups granddad... marvellous !!

I have phoned (but not bought) many KC breeders and when I ask about test the answer is, invariably "they're KC registered". I politely ask "and that means what exactly" and they send me one of those pieces of paper with a "wedding style" font with a list of bizarre dog names on.... no health tests or anything but I know that "Five Feet Pointy Head the Third out of Africa" was the little pups granddad... marvellous !!

Then go to UKA or the BFA??

Don't complain about not being able to do it!

My experience has been much better then....and oddly -people who are coming training are knowing more and more about health tests that are needed (if they have specific breeds) Sadly I get lots who did not need health testing as 'they are crossbreeds and are healthier than pedigrees'.