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Gosh what an interesting, informative thread. I've spent ages reading it through and feel I was completely uninformed before this.

It seems to me that as long as it is done for the right reasons, at the right time and in the right way (I'm till trying to get my head around the old miners biting terrier tails off ), then I can't see why there is such an outcry.

Don't get me wrong, before reading this thread, I would have been the first to say 'no' to docking, and I'm no breeder or know-all so my opinion is not based on experience or expertise. But really I can see the point of working dogs needing to be docked, it cuts the risk of damage or even the stress of amputation (I wonder what a dog feels like when it loses its tail after being to used to it?)

Like Thordell, I probably will sit on the fence on this one but I have definately been swayed from my 'no docking' position.

Thanks for the education all!

Its a shame its degenerated to this I've enjoyed reading both sides..and taken on board some of the ( rather cloudy) facts ..but you cannot compare a babies finger or thumb to a dogs tail and I'm afraid thats were it just gets silly IMHO.
It had been a good debate

I'm not sure if anyone else on here has worked or does work currently at a veterinary hospital or if anyone has explained on here what the puppies really go through when their tails are cut off. I don't really have the time to read through ten pages.

Here is my personal opinion on docking:

I have been working with my local veterinarian for a little over 6 months now and have seen many, many puppies come in to have their tails docked and dewclaws cut.

As I said, someone or several people may have already explained this process and I apologize for repeating it.

In my experience a little of puppies due to have their tails docked come into the vet. One by one, the assistant (me!) holds the puppy while the vet takes a string and ties very tightly the base of the tail to stop bloodflow for a few minutes. The pup is then held upside down and the tail is simply cut off with a pair of sterile scissors. The puppy does scream, and is in obvious pain. The open wound is then sewed up as quickly as possible. Again, the puppy is still screaming. But wait! THE MOMENT it is turned right side up and given a little cuddle, it stops crying and is fine. The string around the base of the newly docked tail is removed and the now sleeping puppy is placed back into its basket and the next puppy is done.

I was really scared the first time I assisted with tail docking. I was angry actually, that I had to hold the poor babies. But when I discovered that as soon as the pup is right side up and given a cuddle, its fine! And this is so far very consistant. I have never, ever seen a puppy yet that was still crying and screaming when it left the hospital. They just squirm around until they are comfortable again and fall asleep as if nothing happened.

So my opinion on tail docking? Like many have said, when properly done by a certified veterinarian, I don't see anything wrong with it. But, do I agree with the reasons for docking? No. Not unless the pup is to grow to be a working dog. But the puppies, the majority anyways, don't go through that much pain.

Hi Tara may I just make the point a puppy turned upside down for any lengthen of time will cry anyway, it is a natural response and a cry for help to the dam because it does not have the ability to right itself with ease and in the wild would be more vulnerable to predators so the crying in this instance is not an indication of pain but an instinctive call for help.

Personaly I have only seen pups done at the side of the nest and they have never made a sound apart from the usual I can't find Mum noise, but then again our vet did not turn the pups over on their back to do the job.

Does your practice do the dew claws at the same time?

I respect the opinions of everyone, be they pro- or anti- docking. However I do feel that mis-information should not be perpetuated. Docking a neonate puppy is in no way comparable to cutting off the fingers or toes of new-born babies. Babies are born with highly developed nervous systems, they can hear, they can see, and all limbs work vigorously, and they have a pain response in all body parts (I rely on Nursey, Thordell & others to correct me if I am wrong). New-born puppies cannot hear or see, their nervous systems are not developed (front legs are the first sensitized to enable movement to the nipple with back legs 'pulled' along). To compare humane docking with the cutting off of babies fingers is akin to comparing apples and oranges - or to having your hair cut as opposed to having it pulled out.

Katrina - good on you for keeping an open mind Whatever conclusions you may reach at least you have listened to the opinions of both sides without prejudice and will base your position on informed opinion

You are correct, as far as I know, pups are born before the nervous system is fully developed I believe even human babies are born with reduced pain response in order for the system to cope with being pushed at great force through the birth canal. Believe all mammals are born with the nervous and pain responses at different levels of maturity to enable them to cope with the birth process, when it comes to creatures like the Kangaroo and Wallaby the young are born at a very immature stage and finish their growth on the nipple.

Primates are born able to see and hear, hold the head up and use the fingers, puppies cannot see or hear, have no control over their temperature and seem only to wriggle toward a source of warmth where nature intended there to be a supply of food, in the domestic situation we confuse the issue by suppling heat by other sources other than the warm belly of the dam.

Great point Minihaha, that didn't even cross my mind. Thank you for pointing that out. As many puppies as I have "helped" to dock, I still don't like it. It is such a debation, there is no way anyone will find the right answer as to whether it is right or wrong. We humans are crazy creatures, aren't we?

Those of you like me (and millions of doglovers) who want this outdated barbaric practice banned can sign this petition.

http://www.emmathevet.co.uk/petition1.asp