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Archer
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29-01-2006, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54
Can't really discuss this Nissan as I don't know anything about showing or breeding, but all I can tell you is, I once showed my very small gsd (only for fun) but she was judged by a very highly respected aged gsd judge, and when I said to her I thought she was too small framed as I liked the bigger boned dogs, she told me she would always favour a small one as those are the ones she preferred. So what does that mean then? She would obviously favour what she preferred and not the standard?

Size
Ideal height (from withers and just touching elbows): dogs: 63 cms (25 ins); bitches: 58 cms (23 ins). 2.5 cms (1 in) either above or below ideal permissible


Length measured from point of breast bone to rear edge of pelvis, exceeding height at withers. Correct ratio 10 to 9 or 8 and a half. Undersized dogs, stunted growth, high-legged dogs, those too heavy or too light in build, over-loaded fronts, too short overall appearance, any feature detracting from reach or endurance of gait, undesirable

The 2 quotes above are extracts from the GSD breed standard.As you can see there is a 2 inch variation allowed for both dogs(26-24") and bithches(24-22").This means that if you get a dog that is 'top standard' against a dog on the small size then the difference will seem HUGE! But both ARE standard!!
As for the 2nd quote it states...too heavy or too light...the interpretation of 'too' is up to the judge.
EVERYONE has preferences....about everything in life.As long as the dogs are judged by the standard there is no problem with preferences.When I decide which shows I am doing I look at the judge and if they like 'my type' of dog I may well travel further than for a judge who prefers a different type.Thats not saying that the judge is not judging to the standard....but that my dogs (despite being quite successful) aer not her/his prefered type.
Life would be pretty boring without different opinions and most of us show people could stay at home in the knowledge that the same dog would win everytime....wouldn't do much for the gene pool would it
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Borderdawn
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29-01-2006, 02:16 PM
Many breed standards are very complex and there are a multitude of permutations of slight fault,
Movement - Has the soundness to follow a horse. How about that Mini for complex!
Dawn.
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Meg
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29-01-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
Movement - Has the soundness to follow a horse. How about that Mini for complex!
Dawn.
..thats pretty clear I would say Dawn
When talking about the breed standards being complex, I was thinking along the lines of studying the skeletal structure of a dog and how it affects the movement...it is easy for one to stand at the ring side and criticise a judges decision, but until you put your hands on a dog (particularly one with long furnishings or a thick coat) and feel how they are constructed you really can't tell what they are like . Also it is important to view a dogs movement from the front and behind to assess it correctly, this is is quite different to viewing it from the ring side. So unless you actually do these things youself you can't know for sure whether a Judge is interpreting the standard correctly or not.
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Mel
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29-01-2006, 04:42 PM
Breed to standard always ...and hope that you don;t get a novice judge who knocks you for having a bum high dog whilst it is still a puppy *sigh*
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mo
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29-01-2006, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Mel
Breed to standard always ...and hope that you don;t get a novice judge who knocks you for having a bum high dog whilst it is still a puppy *sigh*

Thats a bit sad I would have thought even a novice judge wouldnt knock a puppy for that reason

Mo
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Pita
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29-01-2006, 05:44 PM
Do you know Mel to me judging puppies is the most difficult judging to do, even if it is your own breed who's puppy stages you know well. OK sometimes you get a pup that is, even at a young age, showing such quality that you would be blind to miss it, even then as you award it Best Puppy you wonder if it will last as very often the puppy that wins everything for it's first year in the ring sinks without trace when it reaches the adult classes. Conversely you have the puppy that looks a pig until it's 2 years old when it blooms and remains unbeaten till it is either removed from the ring or another ugly duckling becomes a swan.

Others may not agree with me but I always agonise over the puppy & junior classes, you do make allowance for the different growth stages but how much allowance should you give, you understand the pup may be worried and appear nervous, may not wish to show it’s mouth to a stranger, invariable moves in an erratic manner, you just have to go with your gut felling, right or wrong.

PS. Have never penalised nor criticised a puppy for being bum high, it is rather what one should expect.
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mo
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29-01-2006, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Thordell
Do you know Mel to me judging puppies is the most difficult judging to do, even if it is your own breed who's puppy stages you know well. OK sometimes you get a pup that is, even at a young age, showing such quality that you would be blind to miss it, even then as you award it Best Puppy you wonder if it will last as very often the puppy that wins everything for it's first year in the ring sinks without trace when it reaches the adult classes. Conversely you have the puppy that looks a pig until it's 2 years old when it blooms and remains unbeaten till it is either removed from the ring or another ugly duckling becomes a swan.

Others may not agree with me but I always agonise over the puppy & junior classes, you do make allowance for the different growth stages but how much allowance should you give, you understand the pup may be worried and appear nervous, may not wish to show it’s mouth to a stranger, invariable moves in an erratic manner, you just have to go with your gut felling, right or wrong.

PS. Have never penalised nor criticised a puppy for being bum high, it is rather what one should expect.

Well Said , my sentiments exactly.

mo
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Mel
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29-01-2006, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by mo
Thats a bit sad I would have thought even a novice judge wouldnt knock a puppy for that reason

Mo
So would I Mo
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mo
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29-01-2006, 06:12 PM
Did they say it was for this reason in the critique? not read my dog papers recently got a pile of them to go through

Mo
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Mel
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29-01-2006, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by mo
Did they say it was for this reason in the critique? not read my dog papers recently got a pile of them to go through

Mo
No, it was in private conversation afterwards. Not even a novice judge would be so stupid as to put that in their critique.
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