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Tang
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13-09-2013, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
It doesn't matter how old the tests and investigations were.

Iams is manufactured by proctor and gamble.
The BIGGEST animal tester of all the multi national companies.

They are 100% still animal testing all their products and IF iams isn't being animal tested anymore you can bet the money from sales of iams will be going towards animal testing new or improved other products like cosmetics.
Yes but you are presumably aware of just how many everyday products in the shops are developed using animal testing. Including most products from P&G.
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To name but a few!

And I'm now reading that Iams has stopped this. No idea if it is true but if it is it's a better use of protest to protest against those who still are.

I abhor unnecessary animal testing. But can't see why this particular story should suddenly evoke such horror if it's been public for THIRTEEN YEARS?

You see, to me, this says that when it is in the public eye everyone is OUTRAGED. Then they forget all about it as in this case for more than a decade and then it is raised again and - hey presto outrage again. But then it will be forgotten again. The outrage hasn't been sustained all those years.

Check out the horror vids of the life of chickens destined for KFC and all sorts of stuff connected with factory farming to put food on human tables.
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tawneywolf
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13-09-2013, 06:31 PM
Like I said I didn't know how old it was, Kaya's mummy rang me whilst I was on the river with Lona and Mabs and said she was sending it over to me, she was so upset by it all. So I said when I got it I would put it on here, it is horrific to think that any company, or anybody for that matter, thinks its OK to abuse animals in this fashion and then blithely go ahead and manufacture food for this same animal and make advs that make them sound like caring people!!!! only interested in your dog's welfare.
The trouble is that both the pharmaceutical and food manufacturing companies have virtually taken over veterinary colleges and practices by sponsoring various courses and seminars, so vets are being virtually brainwashed into thinking that this is all good stuff and what jolly good chaps these companies are for paying all this money out. The truth is far more insidious
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Laurabehjet
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13-09-2013, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
Yes but you are presumably aware of just how many everyday products in the shops are developed using animal testing. Including most products from P&G.
Head & Shoulders
Febreze
Ariel
Bold
Bounce
Daz
Fairy
Pampers
Crest
Pantene
Olay
Wella
Hugo Boss
Braun
Aussie
Gucci
Oral B
Nice n Easy
Swiffer
Pepto Bismol

To name but a few!

And I'm now reading that Iams has stopped this. No idea if it is true but if it is it's a better use of protest to protest against those who still are.

I abhor unnecessary animal testing. But can't see why this particular story should suddenly evoke such horror if it's been public for THIRTEEN YEARS?

You see, to me, this says that when it is in the public eye everyone is OUTRAGED. Then they forget all about it as in this case for more than a decade and then it is raised again and - hey presto outrage again. But then it will be forgotten again. The outrage hasn't been sustained all those years.

Check out the horror vids of the life of chickens destined for KFC and all sorts of stuff connected with factory farming to put food on human tables.
I don't use anything made by proctor and gamble so I know all the brands.
No nestle here either, because of the animal testing and also their disgraceful human rights record.

Also, all own brand stuff in co op in superdrug is BUAV approved so its not that hard to find cruelty free products.

Who cares if iams stopped it?
Iams is a proctor and gamble brand, therefore, any money made from selling iams is going to help fund more animal testing for their other products so IMO, should be protested against.
They are a disgusting company and the harder people try to avoid making money for them the better.

It may have been public 13 years ago but a lot of people didnt know about it then.
So, when they find out now, they are outraged and rightly so.

Proctor and gamble may not be testing for iams but they ARE still animal testing for other products.
Mostly on beagles from Harlan but also rabbits, rodents etc.

Reg KFC, I'm a vegetarian sooooo...
But, many would argue that meat production is for food and we need food so its okay.
Quite frankly, the majority of livestock is reared appallingly.
Not jus KFC but almost all the meat in supermarkets and restaurants.
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Malka
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13-09-2013, 07:11 PM
Laura, you are a vegetarian by choice. Do you also feed your dog a vegetarian diet?

Human medication is first tested on animals. Mice initially. Would you therefore refuse to take any medication let alone a life-saving drug because it had been tested on animals?

Pigs are specially bred so that their heart valves can safely be used for heart valve replacements in humans. Would you refuse such a transplant? Pig meat is forbidden in the Jewish religion, but using pig heart valves, if they are the only thing which will save a life, is permitted.
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Tang
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13-09-2013, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
I don't use anything made by proctor and gamble so I know all the brands.
No nestle here either, because of the animal testing and also their disgraceful human rights record.

Also, all own brand stuff in co op in superdrug is BUAV approved so its not that hard to find cruelty free products.

Who cares if iams stopped it?
Iams is a proctor and gamble brand, therefore, any money made from selling iams is going to help fund more animal testing for their other products so IMO, should be protested against.
They are a disgusting company and the harder people try to avoid making money for them the better.

It may have been public 13 years ago but a lot of people didnt know about it then.
So, when they find out now, they are outraged and rightly so.

Proctor and gamble may not be testing for iams but they ARE still animal testing for other products.
Mostly on beagles from Harlan but also rabbits, rodents etc.

Reg KFC, I'm a vegetarian sooooo...
But, many would argue that meat production is for food and we need food so its okay.
Quite frankly, the majority of livestock is reared appallingly.
Not jus KFC but almost all the meat in supermarkets and restaurants.
I'd have thought anyone would care if any company 'stopped doing it'.

My point is - why protest against Iams when it is P&G who are the main culprit?

And why aren't people outraged at Crufts too as I am reading that Eukanuba are their PRINCIPAL SPONSOR? Another P&G one. So as you say any money made from selling that goes to make P&G richer.

Is everyone who is outraged boycotting Crufts and petitioning them?
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Laurabehjet
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13-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
Laura, you are a vegetarian by choice. Do you also feed your dog a vegetarian diet?

Human medication is first tested on animals. Mice initially. Would you therefore refuse to take any medication let alone a life-saving drug because it had been tested on animals?

Pigs are specially bred so that their heart valves can safely be used for heart valve replacements in humans. Would you refuse such a transplant? Pig meat is forbidden in the Jewish religion, but using pig heart valves, if they are the only thing which will save a life, is permitted.
Briefly, but only because she was exhibiting allergy symptoms to anything else, I really don't see how that has anything to do with invasive animal testing for dog food...?

I do not agree that it should be, it is required by law and I personally think that it's utterly ridiculous.
You only have to look at the devasting consequences many drugs that had passed animal trials had when they were tested on people and the drugs that failed animal trials but were a huge success when applied to people.
Obviously, I like my life very much and if I had to choose between dying and taking medicine, I would choose the medicine.
That does not mean I agree with it.
I hope that one day common sense will prevail.

Yes I would refuse the transplant, I would wait for a human one and hopefully not die first.
There are some very compelling arguments against xenotransplantation.
The risk of introducing disease specific to another species that could mutate and wipe out the human population for one...
If you can create a rat with a human brain and a beef burger from a test tube you can create a human organ IMO.
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Laurabehjet
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13-09-2013, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
I'd have thought anyone would care if any company 'stopped doing it'.

My point is - why protest against Iams when it is P&G who are the main culprit?

And why aren't people outraged at Crufts too as I am reading that Eukanuba are their PRINCIPAL SPONSOR? Another P&G one. So as you say any money made from selling that goes to make P&G richer.

Is everyone who is outraged boycotting Crufts and petitioning them?
The COMPANY has not stopped doing it!
They have stopped for that product but are carrying out the same, cruel, invasive experiments....
You protest against iams, you are protesting against proctor and gamble as they make it.

Well In fact, most years there is a group of protesters outside for crufts!
They may have been banned now but they used to be there every year protesting against the sponsors.
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Tang
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13-09-2013, 08:08 PM
Well I'm doing a bit of reading now and apparently ALL dog foods are complicit in this. Even the so called Nature Menu stuff - if they don't test themselves (and most will admit they do) they use results gained from places like Hills who do the tests.

If they didn't they apparently couldn't make claims like 'improves renal function', or 'improves digestion', or any of the other special claims made. They have to have had the tests to prove it.
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Jenny
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14-09-2013, 02:45 PM
WTF

That is absolutely disgraceful and what I don't understand is why do P&G (Iams) need to cut muscle away etc etc etc. I've never seen any dog food that is labelled to improve muscle or bone density.

I wish that Iams video would do the rounds on FB.
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tawneywolf
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14-09-2013, 03:12 PM
Jenny, the more people put it up on various sites the more people will see it, and I hope they will vote with their feet
I'm not on bookface, but I would like to think that anyone who is would put it up there, nudge nudge
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