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Timber-
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30-06-2013, 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Malpeki View Post
do you really believe that to cage a dog helps it to lose their Separation anxieties?

at all a dog who only had to live in kennels?

certainly she had to pee and poo there as well

just to cage everything because you are feeling uncomfortably with, I do not think, that this is a solution of the Problem

rather I would bring her to the "object", let sniff at it and say NO!
bring it out in the garden (with her), put it down there and tell her, that's there it's fine

but of course, just to cage a dog is the easier solution!
Crate training is not to simply put the dog away at our convenience, for either separation anxiety or housetraining. There's much more to it than that. Crate training, if done correctly, teaches the dog to settle down which in turn can be transferred to settling out of the crate later on while phasing out the crate. For housetraining, while we love our dogs unconditionally, it's impossible to be able to keep an eye on the dog 24-7. Things need to be done around the house (cooking, cleaning, showers, sleeping, etc). If the dog is put away safely in a crate, it brings down the possibility of an accident happening when you can't be watching, making housetraining move along slower.

Making a dog sniff their poop then bringing it outside will only confuse the dog. They don't understand what you're trying to communicate, it just isn't "dog" language that they can understand.
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Tang
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30-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Timber- View Post
Crate training is not to simply put the dog away at our convenience, for either separation anxiety or housetraining. There's much more to it than that. Crate training, if done correctly, teaches the dog to settle down which in turn can be transferred to settling out of the crate later on while phasing out the crate. For housetraining, while we love our dogs unconditionally, it's impossible to be able to keep an eye on the dog 24-7. Things need to be done around the house (cooking, cleaning, showers, sleeping, etc). If the dog is put away safely in a crate, it brings down the possibility of an accident happening when you can't be watching, making housetraining move along slower.

Making a dog sniff their poop then bringing it outside will only confuse the dog. They don't understand what you're trying to communicate, it just isn't "dog" language that they can understand.
I agree about making the dog sniff their poo. It's not far removed from rubbing their nose in it - and useless (but could result in them developing a taste for it!)

About crate training. Much easier if done from puppyhood than if trying with a dog whose never been in one.

First crate I ever had was for my CKCS. Bought to fly her to Cyprus I got it well in advance for her to 'get used to it' (she was 8yrs old) and she'd go in and lie in it and liked it. However, having been SHUT IN IT for the journey - I was never able to get her to go in it again after that. Had to take the door off it even to be able to store it outside as she was then 'scared of it'.

Bella, on the other hand, was put in hers from day one, travelled in the car in it back then and saw it as her refuge, her bolt hole if scared or feeling unwell and somewhere she could dive to the back of with stolen goods out of reach!

Don't use one now for her now she's grown. She is 100% trustworthy left roaming free in the apartment. Main reason for having it in the puppy days was so she couldn't chew wires or escape or get into a pickle in my absence.
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Timber-
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30-06-2013, 03:01 PM
It's all trial and error to find the most heavenly reward for the dog when working on crate training.
Yes, it is certainly easier (most of the time) to crate train a puppy, but it is also very possible to do the same with adult dogs.

I guess I've been lucky that I was able to crate train all my adult fosters. Crates are a must here for fosters considering how many dogs I have. Many times I was able to phase the crate out, but keeping them separate when I can't supervise (over night or while i'm gone during the day) gives me piece of mind that a fight won't start or no bullying happens between them.
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Meg
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30-06-2013, 04:47 PM
Meg is 2 years old and has always lived in kennels previously so was not housetrained. We've been doing all the normal things, taking her out every hour, rewarding her for going outside, cleaning thoroughly to remove any scent inside the house. It keeps happening, however, not when we are there. If I go out, even for 20 minutes, she will poo in the house, even though I let her out before I leave. Is this some form of separation anxiety, a lack of training or a deep seated need for privacy? We have another dog who has no such problems. Advice would be appreciated.
Hello Edwina
Firstly, how long have you had Meg?
This may have nothing to do with SA more a case of not having learnt what to do and when. In her last home she may also have been shouted at for soiling when people were around so waits until it is safe to go.

May I add a couple more points to consider..
What food are you feeding and when, some foods cause a large amount of waste matter. Altering the feeding time can help to prevent night time soling.

When taking Meg out it may help to take her for a short walk to an area used by other dogs. The exercise and scent will stimulate her to relieve herself then you can praise/reward her when she goes.

I would never ever tell a dog off for soiling in the house. If you are not there when they do it they won't have a clue why you are telling them off. If you are there it teaches the dog it is not safe to soil when you are around and you want a dog to be happy to relieve itself in your presence when you take it for a walk .
The other consequence is the dog may 'go' behind the furniture, wait until you are not around or even eat the object which causes your displeasure.
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Malpeki
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30-06-2013, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Timber- View Post
Crate training is not to simply put the dog away at our convenience, for either separation anxiety or housetraining. There's much more to it than that. Crate training, if done correctly, teaches the dog to settle down which in turn can be transferred to settling out of the crate later on while phasing out the crate. For housetraining, while we love our dogs unconditionally, it's impossible to be able to keep an eye on the dog 24-7. Things need to be done around the house (cooking, cleaning, showers, sleeping, etc). If the dog is put away safely in a crate, it brings down the possibility of an accident happening when you can't be watching, making housetraining move along slower.

Making a dog sniff their poop then bringing it outside will only confuse the dog. They don't understand what you're trying to communicate, it just isn't "dog" language that they can understand.
okay, I did not really mean "sniff", however, I meant when mine let something left when she still was a pup, I just picked it up (with kitchen towels) and showed it to her, she had not to sniff at, anyway she knew exactly what it was so at her it was working

and to that caging
I never ever crated my dogs, also my GSD was never crated and I never got any Problem with him as well
and do I care about any chewed shoe?
my own fault, I just had to take it away
all of my Dogs were allowed to move around free in the house, also when I am/was out

so to me it's out of the question, that I ever will cage a dog
I just couldn't do that to them, if they can get "used" it or not
I mean what chance or other opportunity do they have, when they just will get crated?

I don't wanna get caged, so I never would do that to my dog
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Timber-
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30-06-2013, 06:14 PM
My boy Tynan loves his crate, always has. I don't have it out anymore but I do find him in Mocha's crate often or he goes in the space used for our legs when sitting at the computer desk. It's pretty much exactly like a crate, and I find Tynan in there often too.

When Timber was crated as a pup, he too would hang out in there voluntarily to take a nap or play with a toy. His crate is put away too now.

Mocha loves her crate, it's her safe spot and she knows it.

I understand that you don't want to be crated, but to assume all dogs will hate it because you do is unrealistic. Some dogs hate it, others love it. Considering that crating is usually only needed in the very beginning, is nothing when compared to the time the dog doesn't need to be crated anymore, really only a fraction.

Also, crating keeps the dog safe when you're not around. How many dogs have been electrocuted by chewing on wires? Or they can ingest something harmful that can kill them.

You have been lucky that you haven't needed to crate your dogs. Wish everyone would be that lucky, including myself.
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Megsy
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30-06-2013, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hello Edwina
Firstly, how long have you had Meg?
This may have nothing to do with SA more a case of not having learnt what to do and when. In her last home she may also have been shouted at for soiling when people were around so waits until it is safe to go.

May I add a couple more points to consider..
What food are you feeding and when, some foods cause a large amount of waste matter. Altering the feeding time can help to prevent night time soling.

When taking Meg out it may help to take her for a short walk to an area used by other dogs. The exercise and scent will stimulate her to relieve herself then you can praise/reward her when she goes.

I would never ever tell a dog off for soiling in the house. If you are not there when they do it they won't have a clue why you are telling them off. If you are there it teaches the dog it is not safe to soil when you are around and you want a dog to be happy to relieve itself in your presence when you take it for a walk .
The other consequence is the dog may 'go' behind the furniture, wait until you are not around or even eat the object which causes your displeasure.
Hi, I've had Meg since March. She has never slept in a house before as she was a racing Trailhound who had spent all her life in kennels. I have never told her off for going in the house and have always praised her for going outside. At the moment we are feeding her on Chappie and some kibble. Should she be on something different?

Thank you all so much for taking the trouble to answer. I appreciate the support and advice.
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Tang
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30-06-2013, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hello Edwina
Firstly, how long have you had Meg?
This may have nothing to do with SA more a case of not having learnt what to do and when. In her last home she may also have been shouted at for soiling when people were around so waits until it is safe to go.

May I add a couple more points to consider..
What food are you feeding and when, some foods cause a large amount of waste matter. Altering the feeding time can help to prevent night time soling.

When taking Meg out it may help to take her for a short walk to an area used by other dogs. The exercise and scent will stimulate her to relieve herself then you can praise/reward her when she goes.

I would never ever tell a dog off for soiling in the house. If you are not there when they do it they won't have a clue why you are telling them off. If you are there it teaches the dog it is not safe to soil when you are around and you want a dog to be happy to relieve itself in your presence when you take it for a walk .
The other consequence is the dog may 'go' behind the furniture, wait until you are not around or even eat the object which causes your displeasure.
Excellent advice.
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Tang
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30-06-2013, 06:44 PM
To be honest, if you are just going to 'crate' when out of the house - most dogs will just sleep when left alone so I don't think it makes a hell of a difference whether they sleep on the floor, the furniture or in a crate.
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Meg
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30-06-2013, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Megsy View Post
Hi, I've had Meg since March. She has never slept in a house before as she was a racing Trailhound who had spent all her life in kennels. I have never told her off for going in the house and have always praised her for going outside. At the moment we are feeding her on Chappie and some kibble. Should she be on something different?

Thank you all so much for taking the trouble to answer. I appreciate the support and advice.
Hello Edwina what kind of kibble and what time do you feed...
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