register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Gemini54
Dogsey Veteran
Gemini54 is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,781
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
I am a breeder and frankly find this kind of sweeping statement incredibly insulting ! ....I'll tell you what the REAL problem is ....it's the feckless puppy buyers who buy on impulse , who buy without any kind of reserach, who buy because it's the latest fashion, who go for the cheap closest , no questions asked option ....and continue to support puppy farmers and BYB's despite all the information out there about how to do it right .

We have many excellent breeders who health test their dogs and issue contracts undertaking to take back anything they've bred thus not adding to the rescue situation ...yet time and again Jo Public goes for the unethical option ....in my own breed ( BSD ) there are Malinois selling on generic puppy sale sites for as little as £250 no questions asked and of course no support or health tests results given .....a complete disaster when the owner loses interest or finds they have bitten off more than they can chew .....these are the dogs that come into to rescue .

If everyone bought via the breed clubs recommendation or the KC's Assured Breeder Scheme then the numbers in rescue would be decimated ....it's down to you STOP supporting unethical and irresponsible breeders and search out the good ones out there ...we are not all the same ......good breeders are part of the solution not part of the problem.
Hi I am going in with both feet now,armed to the teeth,You are quite correct,I really want the newspapers classified to take responsibility for the ads they allow,because its those sort of breeders that should be targeted,if there was a scheme where people could only obtain dogs from registered breeders the puppy numbers would go down,and responsible owners would go up.

Here in Wales,we have a lot of trouble with the Ferry to Ireland,and have been on vigils giving out leaflets to all passengers,making them aware if they are going to bring a puppy home,that there are points to look out for,We have now been forbidden anywhere near the ferry, so a lot of sickly puppies are coming back to the UK and I would bet my bottom dollar,eventualy they will breed from that poor stock,but we know that the 1st point of call is the classified,the response we got so far is that they use a disclaimer,that may safeguard them but not the puppy.So we have managed to get a consultive through the assembley,re micro chipping for later this year.Our little band will now start again re the papers as I feel that the registered breeders are not the culprits,as they are already being monitored.crystalgirl
Reply With Quote
Gemini54
Dogsey Veteran
Gemini54 is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,781
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by Malpeki View Post
Hey Crystalgirl, that is really a shocking and very sad story

and even if they had to, if it were been neccessary, a "must"... whatever

over here, it were got a real scandal!
as by law, it is not allowed to kill any animals (vertebrates at all) without to stun them before
so just to shoot them, would be totally against the law

pity that you might can't read that?

-> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ti...2BJNG000303377

that's our "Tierschutzgesetz" ~ The German law for animal protection and there it is in black and white!

but just scroll down (oh and up, as I just checkt what comes up at clicking at there ), you will see, there's a lot written down
and that's still not all

but I already love the first §
what says (my translation )

"the purpose of that law is, that out of the responsibility of the human, for the animal as a fellow creature, they have to protect its life and wellbeing.
Nobody without any reasonably reason may hurt them, to do harm to them or inflict pain on them"

something like that

that also incudes E-collars or cropping / docking for example

this for example is only an abstract<-??? of that law, especially for dogs

http://www.tsv-tierhilfestade.de/ind...d=65&Itemid=38

all down to point 2, that's for cats then
but that's still not all

is your animal welfare act in UK also so detailed?
Hi I think we are a bit slow in getting there,Wales is doing there own thing Northern Ireland has a licence and Scotland has also there own law,so we are all trying but not pulling in the same direction ,one day we may get it right we can only hope crystalgirl
Reply With Quote
Julie
Dogsey Veteran
Julie is offline  
Location: england
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,440
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 09:52 AM
We need a change in attitude to dogs in this country IMO. Many good caring breeders out there do take time to find good homes for their puppies but for some it's a job making money.

Many good caring puppy buyers too but some put more thought into their weekly grocery shopping than picking a puppy.

Also need some support for people when circumstances change, illness/disability, job loss or family break up can happen to anyone at any time and the number of dogs given up when it happens is criminal.

Wouldn't take much to offer some kind of help to people to keep their dog within their home. Personally I walk a ladies dog at the moment because she can't, and we go round once a week and clear up the poop from her garden for her. If more people offered a hand to people when they struggle less dogs would need to be rehomed.
Reply With Quote
Tang
Dogsey Veteran
Tang is offline  
Location: Pyla Village, Larnaka, Cyprus
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,788
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by Malpeki View Post
Hey Crystalgirl, that is really a shocking and very sad story

and even if they had to, if it were been neccessary, a "must"... whatever

over here, it were got a real scandal!
as by law, it is not allowed to kill any animals (vertebrates at all) without to stun them before
so just to shoot them, would be totally against the law

pity that you might can't read that?

-> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ti...2BJNG000303377

that's our "Tierschutzgesetz" ~ The German law for animal protection and there it is in black and white!

but just scroll down (oh and up, as I just checkt what comes up at clicking at there ), you will see, there's a lot written down
and that's still not all

but I already love the first §
what says (my translation )

"the purpose of that law is, that out of the responsibility of the human, for the animal as a fellow creature, they have to protect its life and wellbeing.
Nobody without any reasonably reason may hurt them, to do harm to them or inflict pain on them"

something like that

that also incudes E-collars or cropping / docking for example

this for example is only an abstract<-??? of that law, especially for dogs

http://www.tsv-tierhilfestade.de/ind...d=65&Itemid=38

all down to point 2, that's for cats then
but that's still not all

is your animal welfare act in UK also so detailed?
You can see details of the UK Animal Welfare Act here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents
Reply With Quote
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline  
Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
10-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Jessiesdad View Post
This has been known about for a while.

The thing with breeders is that they won't cut down on litters because to them it's all and only about MONEY!!!!

I don't know what the answer is but as long as there are greedy grasping breeders out there able to operate with impunity you won't stop it.
Not all breeders breed for money .Good breeders only breed very occasionally, they have a waiting list for their puppies and have an agreement with new owners that if for any reason a dog is unwanted it will be returned .
These kind of breeders are not the people whose dogs are filling the rescue centres.

'The shocking truth' for me is that too many people get a dog without realising the time/money/commitment involved in owning one .
Reply With Quote
Malpeki
Dogsey Senior
Malpeki is offline  
Location: South Germany
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 806
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
You can see details of the UK Animal Welfare Act here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents
Oh thank you very much, that's interesting

I'll read it later, when I've more time as I'm still working
Reply With Quote
twix
Dogsey Senior
twix is offline  
Location: s e england
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 937
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 01:04 PM
I totally agree with Bijou. Yes, there are many bad people out there who only have litters to line their pockets and just as many gullible people willing to spend silly money on a pup raised on rubbish with no health testing of the parents done therefore creating a space for the next litter.

The RSPCA antagonised many breeders of pedigree dogs after the debacle at Crufts a few years ago so have lost their support. I know that the local branches have to support themselves but the HO in the south is huge - how is that financed? They also did themselves no favours by killing those GSDs like they did which I find unforgiveable.

Breeding isn't cheap if you do it properly. From my last litter I spent:
£250 on health tests (a one off figure)
£25 on wormers for mum
£50 on CHV vax for mum
£650 stud fee had to pay that upfront
£60 on 4 x vet beds
£35 on scan. 8 pups were seen. Only 1 was born alive
£120 on after hours consult at vets inc 3 hormone jabs
£200 on a large quantity of goat milk powder bought in advance in anticipation of a large litter
£120 on 4 sacks of puppy food, ditto for large litter
£10 on puppy wormers
£ ? God knows how much on heating whelping area for 3 weeks
£ ditto extra electric for extra washing.

I don't need to breed for the money. I dont have a mortgage. I never go on holiday. Up until last year i was driving a 15 year old car. Any money left over from a litter hopefully pays for the upkeep of my other dogs until the next litter.

Please do not tar all breeders with the same brush.
Reply With Quote
Malpeki
Dogsey Senior
Malpeki is offline  
Location: South Germany
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 806
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Not all breeders breed for money .Good breeders only breed very occasionally, they have a waiting list for their puppies and have an agreement with new owners that if for any reason a dog is unwanted it will be returned .
These kind of breeders are not the people whose dogs are filling the rescue centres.

'The shocking truth' for me is that too many people get a dog without realising the time/money/commitment involved in owning one
.
or those dog owners who thinks, that they want to have "only once" "Oh sooo sweet puppies" of their "Oh sooo sweet doggy"
when I hear of something like that, I really could barf!
but that has nothing to do with feeding my dog raw
Reply With Quote
Bobble
Dogsey Senior
Bobble is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 499
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 03:09 PM
The plight of many dogs worldwide is horrific and as a dog lover hard to ignore. We each need to do what we can to help in our own areas/breeds etc. In the UK the Blue Cross are currently recruiting volunteer educators, to go into schools and educate young people about pet care responsibilities. It is a volunteer post I would love to do and know I would be good at! But, I already work full time in education, so I cannot take on the role as am always working when they want someone. It is one way though that dog lovers can help.

It is such a sad situation that whilst on one hand dogs are being lost and even stolen and frantic desperate owners are trying to get them back. Whilst on the other many dogs are being abandoned and never claimed. Local dog wardens do a fantastic and often difficult job, but after 7 days unclaimed dogs have to go to a rescue or be PTS (this is the old chestnut of needing to make room for the others coming in) This should give an idea of the scope of the problem of abandoned dogs.

On a personal level, I would love to do more to help canines, but I am also the breadwinner at home so need to paid employment, however I do what I can to help a few favourite, carefully chosen charities - the ones that put the animal first and that have a non-destruction policy. These charities are full to bursting and need your help. Please if you love dogs (you do thats why you're looking at Dogsy!) Support dog charities in any way you can by volunteering, doing sponsored events, donations, walking etc etc. However, educating the masses is the key to helping long term.
Reply With Quote
Florence
Almost a Veteran
Florence is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,223
Female 
 
10-04-2013, 03:56 PM
In the defense of the RSPCA: this was a daily mail article. So much of it is written in a biased way to shock and get as many readers as possible (to get profit, as it is in this world).

I agree it's horrible that a lot of dogs are put to sleep, it's even worse that they do so if the dogs are healthy. BUT: In my honest opinion... I think sometimes it's better than having a dog live in a kennel for months and sometimes years. Some dogs can't deal with that, so they are put to sleep for no MEDICAL reasons, but for psychological ones. Same with the cats, a post mortem exam might not have revealed any medical reasons to put the cats to sleep, but they might have been almost feral and it might have been that they wouldn't have been suitable for rehoming. So instead of keeping them in a cage (which kennels are, at the end of the day) forever, they were put to sleep.

Also, the article makes it out that it's a BAD thing the RSPCA prosecutes more people for animal cruelty. How can that be a bad thing??? IT'S THE ONLY SOCIETY TO DO SO! Otherwise those people would just be getting a new dog/cat/horse which in the end would end up in a shelter again. Meaning more animals would live in terrible conditions.

So I understand that a lot of people have divided opinions about the RSPCA but at the end of the day you have to understand that the problem is bigger than what one society can handle and it's not the RSPCA's job to take responsibility for all of the thoughtless people who got a pet on a whim and then realised they can't cope/have no money/have no space/ have no bloody idea about anything.
Space and resources are limited and it's difficult to set priorities and I think they are doing a bloody good job.
In a country in the middle of a recession everybody has to pay the price for the economic crisis, perhaps apart from really wealthy people. But it's the poorest it hits hardest and among them are innocent living beings like pets. And the situation isn't nice but the problem comes from somewhere else than what this article makes it out to be and they're just trying to find a scapegoat, because that's the easiest and most profitable thing the daily mail can do in this situation.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dogs Today Article: The Shocking Truth ClaireandDaisy General Dog Chat 7 18-07-2010 11:37 AM
Any truth in this ?? inkliveeva General Dog Chat 20 20-01-2009 10:59 PM
The Truth Colin General Dog Chat 1 13-12-2007 09:29 PM
Isn't this the truth!! Colin Off-topic Chat 0 01-08-2007 07:10 AM
Ain't it the truth! Foxy General Dog Chat 4 06-10-2005 12:41 PM

© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top