Couldn't agree more.

I am very lucky that Benj only does it to cars etc and not people.

I think it is a behaviour you are more likely to see in a collie but it is a training issue and actually will be quite hard to eradicate so his new owners will need a lot of help and back up.

When I investigated the dogs returned to the NAWT in Cornwall a few years ago it transpired that the honeymoon time was between 2 and 4 weeks generally. At the time we checked after 3 days and 6 weeks---so we were missing the optimum time. After that we changed to 3 weeks and did pick up a few problems before they got too bad.

rune

I think I agree and I dont agree with the others

Calling it herding can be helpful for members of the public - just so long as it is also explained that it is missplaced and should be trained

But technically it is not herding - That would be working WITH a person to control animals

It sounds like a stressed behaviour due to lack of socalisation - collies are more likely to resort to trying to control the situation in this manner (or unfortunatly they are also far to likely to be reactive and bark and lunge) other breeds may be more likely to control the situation in different ways

But I think whatever anyone calls it the circling and danger of nipping is just a symptom of the problem - it is the problem (lack of socalisation) that needs dealt with
although of course a savvy person could also work on teaching the dog different more acceptable coping mechanisms too

It is not typical sheepdog behaviour-sheepdogs do not bark at stock & do not simply circle them- don't know what sheepdogs that have attacked you, but it is not typical & gripping(nipping)is a huge fault for a sheepdog

Well I`ve only got him till Tuesday so will walk him onlead where people are about.
Thanks for the replies.

I agree with others this is not herding behaviour.

I think fear is not always the correct word but rather lack of confidence, insecure or tense. And I would guess that is why he did it. Collies do like to control their environment so if they are unsure about someone/something are likely to be proactive rather than fleeing.

I have a new client whose dog did this with me when first introduced. Thankfully ignoring her alongside baked liver once she had settled won her over.

Out of interest---would those who don't think it is linked to herding behavious think that Benj chasing and going round and round traffic is herding linked? Is circling moving objects and nipping tyres herding linked?

rune

Not quite sure what it is but Culotte can be a bit like this on her home ground so to speak, if we are on our normal walk and we see someone (very rare) she will rush up to them barking like a loonie very rude but if we are somewhere she doesn't know then normally she takes no notice of strangers nor dogs, this is on or off lead. She has been socalised from a young age, taken into town, goes to dog school and does agility so I have always put it down to the BC in her, but who knows.

I think that trait is something we have refined and made into herding - so yes it is related to herding imo
Its just gone wrong in his case

I think in collies we have bred for them to be a bit OCD and control freaks I do love them for it - but they are nightmares

The chasing cars/circling people/nipping etc type behaviour does seem to be exhibited by border collies in the main, so is certainly a problem associated with collies and could be down to their reactivity, highly developed response to movement and their innate need to control things. It is mostly seen in collies that haven't had any early training, are allowed to roam, and not given enough to do.