I know many breeds with high prey instincts have been diluted over time, to make them more accommodating to fit into society, but also most of these breeds still look very much as they are supposed to , and dont have a split in conformation, springers and labs being the most common breeds, yet have the biggest split in looks , along with deformities being ignored in their breeding practice.

Why is it so hard for some to achieve looks as well as ability in in their breeds.
There is only one standard, surely if others can achieve "everything" why cant they.


Exactly, so why has it become so diverse in some breeds that the show and working look nothing like each other.

If I buy a (??) I want it to look like the breed standard, not one that has dwarfism, bow legs , to tall, or small , why cant a working breeder bred to standard along with working ability ?

Well they can, but as in ALL breeding of ALL animals, the differing PRIORITIES of the breeder will shape the form going forward.

so a show english setter is the "correct" confirmation?

I don't think all the blame can fall on the working breeders when you look at some of the show types there are. How can some of those do a days work? They don't have the drive so the show breeders have also done the breed a "disservice" by taking out the drive.

I don't personally see a problem with breeding either, if that's what you want, AS LONG AS THEY ARE HEALTHY. I want a dog that will do the job. Yes, I would like it to look the way I want it to but I would choose an "ugly" dog any day if it was going to do the job that I want it to do.

Helen

Still I have yet to see a show "type" in the ring that has dwarfism, or bowed legs, that honour sits firmly in the working breeders camp.

I know someone who breeds working labs, has done so for many years, she does not show , but you could put any of her dog sin the ring and they would not be out of place.

So it is possible to adhere to standard and breed for drive too, its just a shame, that so many don`t bother, as you say, the dogs looks don`t matter as long as it can do the job.


As for health, thats another subject

changed mind

Welsh are still dual purpose and show and work.

Personally I think my "working" bred spaniels are hugely better looking than their show bred counterparts.

I couldn't care less if a "judge" decides whether they are "correct" or not, all that matters is that they have the correct conformation ( ) and drive to do the job - an unhealthy spaniel couldn't spend all day everyday working!

As with many things, the "correct" type is rather subjective, isn't it?

My simple understanding of it is show dogs are bread with looks mainly in mind, workers are bread for almost everything else.

erm general sweeping statement much? are you honestly saying that show lines breed for looks... the most important thing on my mind was health when i bred my litter..

just like you cant say the majority of working line breeders care about health.. the amount of bow legged spaniels you see proves that one wrong.

Clo i cant quote as im on my phone. Im not saying breeders dont care about health (well sadly some dont care about anything other than cash but thats a diffeent soap box for a diffrent day). It is as i said it that its my basic understanding for our dogs at work they come from parents that have worked well for years and won many competitions in their field. Some are crosses some dont realky resemble their breed all that much but we do have some beauties ( in my opinion) but nobody really cares as they were breed from
Parents that were chosen for their ability to work, stamina, drive, health - and not in that order of priorities. The breeder wont choose a pup to keep either till near the end as he wants to know the dog he keeps will have all the working qualities he wants. Dogs without these qualities generalky end up as pets.
I wasnt having a pop at either type of breeder just saying that as far as i understand that is the most obvious thing that seperates them. You wouldnt breed for shows if your dog was ugly would you, what would be the point? Where as a working breeder wouldnt care much if its dog wasnt a stunner as long as it was healthy and could work