Sorry should have said I thought flatcoats were partly bred to hunt, rather than them doing it anyway?? But could be totally wrong come on flatcoat people I want to know more about them

Good discription of GSPs mine is quite happy hunting/pointing or retrieving I hope it stays that way.

Its nice to know that there is quite an interest in flatcoated retrievers and I did say I was not sure if GSPs are harder to train than flatcoats. I have flatcoats and a friend of mine has GSPs. I do not know the lines of my friend's GSPs, but my flatcoats are from Heronsflight/Torwood/Lathkill dogs with Shargleam, Halbent and Pewcroft dogs in there way back. I’m no expert, but I do take a huge interest and love this breed.

Flatcoated retrievers actually have similar abilities to the GSPs and other HPRs. They are called retrievers, but they are not only natural retrievers (few need to be taught to retrieve, its an obsession with them). They are also very capable and effective hunters as well - again it is naturally in there (like a lot of breeds). They can also flush like spaniels and point/set if required to do so. You do find the three elements in a flatcoat. People often only see the retrieving part of them, which is an underestimation; they view them as a slimmer black golden.
There is still no difference between a working flatcoat and a show flatcoat, they are a true dual purpose dog.
A flatcoat that works is very competent in field trials, working tests and working trials and there have been many working flatcoat champions. They don't "just retrieve" at these events. In the US they are used widely as a hunting dog and in this country they are a good rough shooter's dog. Their scenting and hunting abilities are second to none. Years ago they were highly valued as a game-keeper's dog, gamekeepers needed a versatile dog, which is exactly what a flatcoat is. They fearlessly excel in water, and can work well over any ground - in fact anywhere there is game to be found.
Flatcoats are noted for being very slow to mature (some say they never do) and it is very important to have a close relationship with them and understand how they think, whether they work or not. They are fondly known as the Peter Pan of dogs. They very much have a mind of their own, which is forever young (this is sometimes a problem). They like to find their own way of doing things, with great perseverance, exuberance and enthusiasm. They play the fool, usually to audience, which can be embarrassing. This is what can make them to some people a bit of a challenge to work with. But it very much depends what a person wants to do with their dog and, of course, you have to find a dog who really wants to work whatever the breed.
I am not an expert - just an avid enthusiast of the breed and my own dogs have not been trained to work professionally - they have only been trained by me. We have been to a few events, but gun-dog work can be very competitive and that is not me. Some training methods I could never subscribe to. I enjoy my dogs for what they are, excellent and trustworthy companions who you can have a lot of fun with, playing about in the country.
There are not that many books on flatcoated retrievers. There is one by Joan Mason (Heronsflight) one by Brenda Phillips (Exclyst) and a rarer one by Paddy Petch (Rase), plus a couple of others which are very difficult to find.

Thank you for all of that!

That is a good discrption of all the flatcoats I've seen and walked character wise, they are clowns/fools and don't grow up and like to please you in there own way even if it's not quite what you asked for thats what makes them fun.
GSPs know exactly what they are meant to be doing, but often choose not to, can be very stubborn, often like to please them selves and can be very serious about working and thats what makes them fun to train so I like both breeds but for different reasons. But I grew up with a GSP have always loved them and love the way they work (and I am bias for the german black and white ones ).

Sophie

Great description of the flatcoat aerolor!! I would very much like to do some gundog training with Ted but am the same in that I am not competitive and only want to do it for enjoyment (for both me and the dog!) I think an intelligent dog like a flatcoat needs that mental stimulation. Does anyone out there know of anywhere local to Bedford/Milton Keynes that we can enjoy some gundog training? Even if it's only a taster session to see if it's for us?

Thats why I do it I have and will go to tests and trials with my GSP but I am not really a competitive person just like seeing the dogs doing what they do living in devon you don't get to see many other hprs work.
Gundog work really does not have to be competitive. Obviously on shoots / rough shooting etc where dogs are needed, it's just a good day that all enjoy - the dogs on our local shoot aren't trained to trialing standards one of the spaniels wouldn't retrieve for a long time and he's owned by the man who runs the shoot other spaniels just run riot but every one always have a good time. So yes I'd recomend it to

The black and white GSP's are nice Sophie. My friend has just got a black/white puppy. She also has a liver/white bitch who is quite old now. This pup is related to her old dog and is from a pup she bred herself years ago It is also not docked, which I think is good. I can't wait to see her.
We are all loyal to our own favourite breed and I would always choose a flatcoat before any other dog. Their antics make me laugh and I am always amused at the lengths they will go to trying to manipulate you into what they want you to do for them. They are definitely not a breed for the serious minded or easily embarrassed. Best wishes.

GSP puppies are very cute (IMO)

And yes from what I've seen definatly agree with that last bit about flatcoats Do they also lick you to death like the ones I walk sometimes, do?

Thanks

Sophie

Yes, lick, lick, lick - this is one of the manipulative strategies they try on. I think they think that by being so appeasing they will get their own way instead of doing what they are told - very crafty They are very mouthy dogs (orally obsessed) and everything goes into their mouths - all types of muck they find outside (they eat all categories of poop from other animals). They consume huge chunks of grass and soil - sometimes their poo looks like old compost They lick absolutely everything and anyone as well as each other. Then they lick you They must have something to carry around and it doesn't matter what it is, tree trunk, old rags, balls, shoes, clothing, debris from the bottom of the river - anything you've got they want and if they think it might be fun for them to play with they try to get if off you. My old dog took a fancy to doormats and used to pinch as many as he could find. They are terrible thieves and opportunists. Everything you own that has your scent on ends up in their bed at some time or another. When excited they "nibble" at you and even try to carry you by your arm - they are not always as gentle as people think they are. When I had my first male pup I had many bruises from him being so clumsy and rough - my vet laughed and said "that what you get for having a flatcoat". They are also surprisingly assertive with other dogs (mine are anyway) and although they are not aggressive they can be very determined when playing and they do play rough.
All in all, even though they are very pretty/handsome to look at and look as if "butter wouldn't melt" you do need a fair bit of energy to keep up with them - let alone keep on top of them. I don't paint a very pretty picture of them do I but I can't imagine my life without at least one in my life Did I miss the bit out about the humping Absolute hooligans.

[QUOTE=aerolor;2051223] Everything you own that has your scent on ends up in their bed at some time or another.

Oh yes!!!

Yep eating poo/horrible things and stealing are also true of the ones I know and also the mad diving at you greetings. The ones I know are owned by a 70 year old lady every one thinks shes off her trolly having two fairly young flatcoats but them seem happy!

My GSP leans on you quite hard and you find your self being pushed along. He has learnt not to jump up and put his paws on you, instead he does a very good giant meerkat impression and hops his front end up and down. If I let him jump up (very rare) I often get slightly scratched across the face not enough to draw blood just really hurts but is always my own fault, as he is not too far off as tall as me when right up on back legs, but he just wants a cuddle . But the main trouble is he has no idea of his own stregth and size (but any one who meets him certainly do! especially if they take hold of his lead) he's built like a blooming horse! He's still quite young and when he was little he used to be quite clumsey running around, he once ran into my Dad and took him off he feet and has taken me off my feet a few times in the past (he never means to) now his running is much stronger so he wizzes about even faster (but is much more careful) I think it was the grouse pointing in scotland that did that, he thought it was great and has been more lively ever since which I am quite happy with.

All the best

Sophie