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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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02-03-2010, 11:46 PM
Lets people see that there is more than one side to this
There will be lots of people who have only seen CM and although they dont feel comfy with his methods dont know that there are alternatives cos that is all they see
and yup I am totaly fed up of people trying to CM other peoples dogs!
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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02-03-2010, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star 
It made the news:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Britain.html
I think he is going to have a bit of culture shock here - our cruelty and welfare laws are far advanced to the US, and also our libel laws are different - so he cannot and will not be able to silence those who speak against him, even though he's already had a little go!
We will see the sanitized CM here.... but that won't help all the dogs whose owners have seen his shows and tried his methods, not realising or not caring they breach UK welfare laws.
He also claims ad nauseam that he is not a trainer but a rehbailitater - yet he writes and publishes training books: "bring up your puppy the Cesar way' etc.
If in his country, the law allows him to strangle and hang dogs (in public and on TV never mind in private!) - should that be shown here, where it's forbidden?
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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03-03-2010, 12:14 AM
Two dogs belonging to the shows producer were brought on, their problem was pulling on the lead.CM suggested using rollerskates (on the human not the dogs ).
Judging from a few of the comments on TOSBlog his appearence didn't go down too well with some viewers. One mentions contacting the RCVS..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/2010/03/what-did-you-think-of-the-one-66.shtml
''How can you have Cesar Millan on the show? someone who practices animal cruelty! by shaking and choking dogs into submission! Do not take any advice from this man - you would submit if i starved you of oxygen - there is nothing special about his tactics!''
''I am so disappointed to see you have Cesar Milan on your show. Up to now you have been one of the leaders in showing well informed articles on positive dog training. Why do you now have to show someone who offers quick showy answers to desperate people. I believe he thinks his methods are helpful, but all modern research into dog behviour now have proved the premises on which he bases his methods are out of date and based on flawed research.
Please go back to showing positive trainers using such methods as clicker training and reward insteasd of punishement to teach our dogs.''
''Cesar Millan I am sitting next to a animal behaviourist who tells me you are talking rubbish!''
''All modern research has shown that the alpha roll is not used by wolves, or dogs unless they are trying to kill each other. Similarly for the poke in the side which your dog sees as a bite. I do not want my dog to feel fightened of me and fear does not help learning.
I am shocked Caesar 'The Dog Whisperer' has been allowed any air time on the BBC. His techniques are known to cause pain and fear in dogs. UK animal welfare organisations have set up a campaign to highlight his cruel techniques in anticipation of his visit to the UK this year:
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php
Maybe this should be mentioned by the presenters to give a balanced view of the this dog trainer's techniques.
At least it was acknowledged that Cesar's methods might be seen as cruel. ''
''Please get a good positive beviourist on the show soon. Try Sheila Harper. ''
''Oh no not Cesar Millan!!!
20,000 people at £40-100 = 1 million pounds, not bad money (just bad ideas!) for a former dog-groomer who handles dog problems with brute force, rather than with any hint of knowledge of psychology or learning theory.
Pretty much every respectable organisation to do with dogs completely disagrees with Cesar's approach to rehabilitation, including veterinary associations, animal charities, animal behaviourists and trainers.
Read the science behind it explained in various pages (index on left) at: http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php
My wife has been treating aggressive dogs for over a decade, and been bitten once - exactly how many times a week is Cear bitten on his TV show? "Scientific study says use these technique to maximise your chance of your dog not doing what you want, with a fair chance of turning your dog into an aggresive dog:"
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/research/030509.html
For examples of how ridiculous Cesar's ideas are, or how a qualified Veterinary Behaviourist changes behaviour effectively (without getting bitten) see Ask Dr Yin
http://askdryin.com/dominance.php
http://askdryin.com/dog_movies.php
Please don't give this unqualified "tv personality" salesman money for promoting ideas that can actually cause dogs to have problem behaviours!''
''I was very dissappointed in tonights show with having Cesar Milan on.
I feel strongly that the BBC should research their guests fully and find out how this individual stands up in the behaviour and veterinary professions. Major animal welfare organisations have released statements against Cesar Milan and his methods. Only his approach to dog training is seen and not an alternative.
I would suggest contacting the RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons), APBC (Association of Pet Behaviour councellors), APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers, and the RSPCA for their opinions on him. These are all well respected organisations who's opinion and judgement has been sought by the BBC in the past but now seems to be forgotten.
COAPE (Center Of Applied Pet Ethology) also have a campaign against punitive training methods.
I would urge the BBC not to support such people in the future.
I am a Veterinary Nurse and Pet Behaviourist myself''
Here on the one show 16 mins in...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ow_02_03_2010/
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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03-03-2010, 12:40 AM
Is what he does really against the law in this country?? Thats v interesting, I would have thought Nat Geo would need more than a 'dont try this at home' to cover its back
also all the 'trainers' who use his methods with clients are braking the law then
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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03-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Is what he does really against the law in this country??
We also have much different libel laws in this country, meaning we have freer speech than what he may be used to, and so do our various authorities.
I think he & his army have taken on a much different battle over here.
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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03-03-2010, 08:28 AM
Tinkladyv ~ I explained to the cat owner about feline communication via scent, the very territorial nature of cats & hence the reasons for marking territory with urine, faeces & pheromones. I also told her that cats are not pack animals, don't go around in gangs & have absolutely no reason whatsoever to try to be "dominant" over people. I also couldn't resist telling her that all the "leader of the pack" & dominance stuff about dogs is highly flawed too
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